Aurelien Sanchez Interview: Barkley Marathons Finisher 2023

Tayson Whittaker: Alright. Aurelian, super excited to have you back on the podcast. I believe you're the first repeat interviewee. We've had a podcast. But for good reason, as you've just finished the Barkley Marathons - second non-American to ever finish the Barkley’s, and you have I guess the fastest time. I guess they don't really place you as first, second, third, or anything like that when it comes to the Barkley’s. But you did have the fastest time this year. So congratulations and thanks for coming back on the podcast.

Aurelian Sanchez: Thank you. Tayson. Yeah, thank you. It's an honor, and it's gonna be fun to do this with you together again about this special topic, which is important to me. So thank you. Thank you for having me.

Tayson Whittaker: Yeah. I mean when I interviewed you the last time you'd made a few comments that you're interested in the Barkley Marathons, and that it was something that was kind of top of mind for you. And I think maybe even at that time you knew you were into the Barkley Marathon. But when did you first hear about Barkley’s, and what intrigued you? What was it? What was the poll? I mean where do you come from? I mean, really, I guess your background is kind of just endurance. But really, like you know, you have the FKT of the John Muir you've had some of these types of accolades, and the Barkley’s is kind of a It's a different animal where you've got ultra runners that are just all to runners entering it and then you've got guys like you that are more FKT guys. So I mean, When did you first hear about this? And why did it pull you in?

Aurelian Sanchez: Yeah. So if you look at the background from all the finishers, for Barkley I mean most of them. At least they do a lot of FKT's long hikes breaking, trying to break records, hiking records like the John Muir Trail, for example, but also the Appalachian Trail, the Pacific Crest trail, and such long hikes like this, and most of the many partly finishers. I have this background, and this is what I want you to find myself. Also, when I first heard about the Barkley was 2012, but I was not really into hiking any trail running at this time, but when I first decided to to get into Barkley or to try to get into Barkley was 2017. After long heights I was discovering that I could learn about myself by training and just pushing my limits and I want you to go to Barkley to learn about myself again. So then I analyzed the finishers, and I saw that many of them were doing FKT's long hikes and fast hikes, like the John Muir Trail. And this is how I started. So my first project was actually the John Muir Trail trying to break the records from Andrew Bands, and I was believing this will get me to the Barkley in 2017, but I failed at my first attempt, and this is how I started. My start was okay. How should I get in? How can I get into Barkley? And what should I do? And I saw that the finishers were doing FKT. So it's part of the backbone, I would say, FKT. Are self sufficient. You have to go through mountains, and Barkley is about that is, you have to be self-sufficient and it's a lot of time being so, it makes sense to me.

Tayson Whittaker: Yeah, I mean, so you have that accolade of setting that John Muir FKT: which, by the way, I had to do some math on that. That was nearly 76 hrs. So you're 58 hrs in the Barkley marathons. I mean. That must have been nice, right, and I want to get into sleep later, and just here, if you did, if you did sleep. But I mean other than that, John Muir. Have you run 100 mile races? Have you done multiple 100 mile efforts, or or was really like the John Muir the only time that you trained or hiked, or whatever past 100 miles?

Aurelian Sanchez: Yeah, no, that was my first project. So I was playing a lot of soccer before, so I was into the sport. For a long time I was. I was an active person, but I was not really doing utter running, and I'd never done a Marathon, or or or things like this. I was not really a standard runner, let's say, but I was a long distance Hiker: I love that. So yeah, My first project was 220 miles, which was a John Me, but I didn't see that as I mean. Yes, it was a big step. Sorry, but to me it was a question of I just love hiking for a long time, so I didn't want to do a 50 mile an 80 Mile. Or 150 miles. I just wanted to do that for 3 days and learned about myself, and eventually I failed at the first time because of many, many topics. My physical endurance, my mental strength, my gear was not ready, my nutrition was not ready. My sleep strategy was not ready. but basically I was about it. So no, I did not do a marathon. But this is just because I don't like the effort of the Marathon. It's all about running on flat terrain. I just like long distance hiking, which is why it makes sense for me to just start big right at the beginning.

Tayson Whittaker: So since you did the John Muir, have you gone on to do other 100 mile efforts

Aurelian Sanchez: Now? Yes, I did quite a lot. I did a lot of FKT's attempts, which were not really successful. I tried the Tower Room trial twice, and I failed twice. Then I did. Yeah, I did the Bargie Marathon. It's 100 miles. It's not an official event as well. It's a Barkley type race in California. I did that then. When I went back to France, I did. The Pyrenees Crossing, which was about 12 days. It was not an official race, but it's the same thing. It was about 550 miles which was pretty long. And then, yeah, I did so. I did some racing in France. I did the Diagonale des Fous in Ireland. It was 100 miles last year. I've done a lot of racing. I mean a lot, quite some racing, and also a lot of off trail races, even not official events. Let's say so. I built that in 2017.

Tayson Whittaker: So was it. The Pyrenees Crossing, you said, was a 500 mile event.

Aurelian Sanchez: Yes, correct the purine is, for seeing was 550 miles. I think something like that, and it was. It was such a big adventure for me as well as bigger than John will try. It was 12 days out on the trail. So it was. It was big for me. I had very, very low moments and high moments as well.

Tayson Whittaker: Yeah, that's so. Did you finish the 550 miles?

Aurelian Sanchez: Then I finished. I actually finished it. I did the FKT, an unofficial FKT. self-sufficient it was not official because people went to see me on the trail. I had a family and friends that went to see me, but I was totally insufficient, because I wanted to have my own adventure, and to be able to do all of that by myself. But it was not official because of what I just said. Otherwise. Yes, I finished actually improving the previous record which was supported. But at this time there was also somebody else like who broke the record at the same time. So I didn't break the record officially. But yeah, I I at least did my adventure, which was the zoom main. The minimum goal was to do that in above 12 days, and that's what I did. But it was an adventure. I had a lot of pain, physically and mentally, and it was good to share also with my people around me. That's how I was able to see what I was able to do here.

Tayson Whittaker: Yeah, that's incredible. So you've got a lot of experience in, I mean, some really long race scenarios. So I mean, I mean that that has to play into the application process right? Because getting into Barkley’s is pretty competitive. Yeah, I'm not mistaken. They take 40 racers a year.

Aurelian Sanchez: Correct! 40 runners and part of the 40 or 20 people who did it already, and 20 newcomers, let's say.

Tayson Whittaker: okay, okay, Gotcha. That was kind of my next question. That's so. It's. It's really competitive to get in. And so do you? I mean, what is that? What does that look like? Are you trying to kind of prove your worth that you can get in, are you? I mean, I know that there's some kind of secrecy to the application process right as well. But I mean, what are you doing to get in? Is there? I mean. yeah, I mean, guess walk us through that process just a little bit of what you can share.

Aurelian Sanchez: Yeah. So just to stay high level, I, as you said, we cannot share much about this entry process. Everyone has to figure out themselves if they want to get in. But you basically have to answer the question. Why should I be allowed to run to Barkley, and you have to explain yourself, and you have to tell your sorry, whatever you will you need to tell my story was the medication. It's been 6 years since I've been working towards this specific goal. I'm not a new foreigner doing a lot of racing. I just do everything for this specific purpose, getting into the Barkleys. So my message from the first day was patience, that I would wait for my turn to come, because I know many people want to do Barkley. So I want you to just wait for my turn to come. And yeah, that was my message since showing all the experience that I've done across the years, and why I did them because of what I just said, the self sufficient aspect aspect. and I think, at some point I didn't believe in getting to this year because I was I. I knew many people wanted to get in, and I was thinking I was. It was too difficult. But in the end, I think, as the market director and Creator, that I was really dedicated for that, and that I deserved my spot because of all the experience I did. But basically this was my message that it was really my main goal since the beginning.

Tayson Whittaker: Yeah. Well, it's pretty remarkable that your first attempt you get in and complete the Barkley Marathon. Right? You're one of 15 runners, I believe, that have ever completed this in a 36 year history. So let's talk just a second about training. I mean, I know there's so many variables, so many unknowns to the specific race. And so I mean, what did I? What did an average week look like training wise to you. Are you running a lot of miles? Are you? you know, training specific for nutrition or sleep deprivation, or maybe just walk us really quick through what a week we looked like training for this event.

Aurelian Sanchez: Yeah. Yeah. So physical training is one part of it. And on this specific part. So it depends on the week. But, to say average, let's say, I was running about 100 miles a week on average, I think, sometimes 130 miles, sometimes 70 miles. It depends. It was about 20 hours of training during the week on average. Sometimes it was 15, some sometimes plus 30 h. So it depends. And I was focusing mostly my training on elevation gain, doing a lot of repeats on the mountains or doing a lot of innovation game, big volumes, and it's we've got to talk about that for just a second

Tayson Whittaker: This race has 63, and estimated 63,000 feet of elevation, gain, and descent to me personally, like. I think that most people think that one of the most challenging races there is is the hard rock, 100 in Colorado, I mean it's high elevation, which is different right? This is more low elevation. but that race in and of itself in a 100 miles has 33,000 feet of elevation gain in the sense. So that's an average of 320 feet per mile of climbing, whereas this race, according to my estimates, has 485 feet climbed per mile. So it's got to be one of the the most steep races, for you know distance, for in ratio to the distance right I mean that 60 to 63,000 feet of estimated elevation climb. So I know we don't have actuals on the right. It's. It's estimated to be 130 miles, and 63,000 feet, but That's like to me that, like I don't even care that it's 130 miles. I only care that it's 6,300 feet of elevation, because that's so much more challenging than just 130 miles. I mean. There's guys out there that could run 130 miles in daylight hours right from start of the day to the end of the day they could probably finish that versus 63,000 feet of elevation climb. That's a totally different animal. So I mean that to me it's got to be. I don't know, is that priority One, I mean is that the hardest aspect of this. Do you think that to me from the outside on paper that seems like one of the most challenging things? Because, yes, there's navigation.
Yes, there's the duration and stuff, but from a physical standpoint that's got to be like, probably to me priority one, I guess.

Aurelian Sanchez: Yeah, it is. It would actually be more of a priority from my point of view, because what you didn't say in this description, which was quite accurate, is there a terrain? Is this is very steep, because it's off-tray terrain most of the way, and it's not on trade which is why it's cheaper than other races, and the of trade terrain is is quite challenging, because you every food you you put on the floor you have to be careful to not twist your ankle and to be fast enough, let's say so. It's an off-trade terrain, which is quite challenging because we are not used to that. We used to go to run on trails. So I think this will be the first aspect to train on Off-trial terrain, which is what I did in the past several months, and on top of that, because this is off-trail, it's a lot of timing, and exactly what you said. My training was focusing on the timing, and this was the main number I was looking at. And so yeah, the off-trail you cannot really put a number in front of it. It's difficult. But, as you said timing, you can put a number, and this was my main goal. Every week. On average I was doing about 3,000. No, yeah, 30,000 feet of innovation climbing up and down. I mean up 3 h to 30,000 and down 30,000. That was my kind of average, and I was stopping at the yeah 34,000 feet per week on my maximum. And yeah, it's a lot of timing and you have to. You have to do that, to be familiar with it during race time.

Tayson Whittaker: Well, and I remember from the last time that we talked to you, one of the things that was really fascinating is that you would go to the Grand Canyon and hike it like 4 or 5 times in a weekend. And so for those of you that are familiar with the Grand Canyon. This what? What, what aliens just saying is that would be like the equivalent of doing the Grand canyon 8 times in a week, bottom to top you know, down that is, I mean, that's a lot of time, I mean, just just like you said. That's like 20 h or more per week of just running, just exercising. But obviously that's also a lot of speed to be able to do that. Absolutely absolutely incredible. Okay. So you are so training wise, you're doing a ton of miles. You're doing a ton of elevation climbing. What about nutrition and sleep?

Aurelian Sanchez: Yeah. So this is this topic, or it's difficult to say. You don't train much on that. But it's across the years and all the experience that you do, and the nutrition aspect. Let's say the food that you try during your training or your and you're racing.and it's not an easy topic, and everyone has its own nutrition. There is not a single rule and a single nutrition to follow on my side. I was eating cheeseburgers, for example, during my birthday which worked great for me, and many people are surprised about that. But it's actually a great meal to eat and that's really dependent on people and depending on your background, on your racing, and you have to experiment. And, for example, during my first John real trail attempt I was bringing with me mult to the stream powder that I was not able to mix into my flask very well, so I was not able to drink it, and to it properly, and it was a fader. So you have to train for it.

Tayson Whittaker: Why, why in the world would you say that a cheeseburger is a great meal on trail, like everyone. Just drink sugar like everyone is doing what you're saying. They're drinking sugar. You got like the legendary Courtney to Walter, just like eating skittles and candy. And for you it's cheeseburgers. Why, why is that?

Aurelian Sanchez: Coordinate is actually eating pizzas, which is similar to cheese burgers. Okay, I think to me, cheeseburgers are very nice, because you have protein inside, and protein is important for muscle recovery, and it's fat as well, and you cannot really intake. You cannot have enough cargo intake compared to what you burn compared to the carry you burn. So you have to eat as fast as possible, in order to have a lot of calories. Let's say, because it's a long event, it's the wrong race, and despite that, even if you, it's very fatty meals like this, you don't eat enough because your body is burning much more. You have to get the maximum calorie you can. There is, for example, a great adventurer, who is called Mike Horn. When he goes to northern countries in Alaska, for example, he directly uses oil to feed himself. And this is basically for this reason, because it's very fast calorie and the cheeseburgers are that farts a lot of calories, and the resource will be protein for recovery. So it's actually good meat.

Tayson Whittaker: Yeah, it does. It does make a lot of sense there's like a good variety of proteins, carbs, fats in that. But you know it just isn't something you do typically here. I guess so. It's your athlete eating during the race. But so okay. So let's let's, I guess. Dive into the race. Now, just a little bit. The race starts at a random time. You have, like a window of, I believe, 12 h to be prepared. It could start in the middle of the night and start in the morning. What time of day did these events start, and what was the first loop like?

Aurelian Sanchez: Yeah. So, as you said. We don't know about the race, so we have to sleep as well as we can in the van and wait for them to be blown, which is 1 h before the start. It was blown on. The cons were blown at 9 am. Just a little bit before 9 am. So we started at 10 am. Tennessee time. So it was daylight at the beginning of the day. So we knew we're gonna have it. Were. We were gonna have a first loop by daylight. The first group is about 10 h maximum for me. At least it was gonna be. That was my goal. So I knew that. My yeah, By 8 Pm. I will be done. So that was the first group.

Tayson Whittaker: And is there a cut off time for every single loop.

Aurelian Sanchez: Yeah, it's correct. It's 12 h. If you want to do 5 loops. it's 12 h that you accumulate every time it's for the first loop. It's 24 for the second loop, 36, 48 for 4 and and 64 5 obviously

Tayson Whittaker: so you're not planning a lot of margin even on your very first loop. You're saying 10 h, which gives you 2 h of buffer 2 h of if I get lost, if I have issues. So I mean that that's really interesting. It's. I guess it's interesting, too. like I I I would think that some of these ultra runners they're thinking it's only 20 miles. I can re-run that very quickly, but it seems like your approach to that was maybe conservative, and like I could see people thinking that even planning on a 10 h loop would be conservative in some ways. So that's probably very wise going into it, because I imagine what reaches up and gets a lot of people is overestimating their abilities in this race.

Aurelian Sanchez: Yeah, yeah. So it's not really 10. It was not 3, 10 h for me was 9 h 30 exactly the go for the first group. Maximum 9 over 30, and you have to think about the whole thing. You know. It's 10 h at the beginning. But once you do 10 h, which is a lot already, there is still 50 h remaining into your race. So you just did one fifth of the race, and you have still 4 loops to do so. You really have to keep to, to stay in shape after this for this first group. Otherwise you're gonna get into trouble very soon. So that was my goal. I want you to be conservative. But, as you said, I want you to. But to have enough margin, this question is very difficult for everyone. This is Why, everyone at the beginning is moving fast, especially the front group, the first group they really want to kill. This. They really want to have as much margin as they can, because we never know. As you said, we can be lost. But at the same time we want to be conservative, because this is only the beginning. So it's a difficult question to answer. I was relying on Karl, who is my best friend, and my mentor for this Barkley. He did it 4 times now. He did 3 times before this year, and we were training a lot together in the and you know pretty well what should be done on the first open. We said about 9 h, 9 9 9 or 30 to have enough margin, and to be enough conservative. And this is actually what we've done. We nailed the first group together. We did it at 8: 45, I think faster than what we wanted, but at a conservative pace. So the first group was perfect, and I think this is why my race, then, was good, because this first group was on in a perfect manner and perfect base.

Tayson Whittaker: So when you take off from the gate. Are you all running the same direction on the loop? Does that mean that 40 runners are kind of just following each other, especially on these first few loops? I guess it kind of runs as a pack. Almost.

Aurelian Sanchez: Yeah, Exactly. So you are. You have books around the loop that we didn't mention. Books are serving as checkpoints during the race. You have certain books and you have a big number at every loop. My beam number in the first group was 77 so you have to tear out the page 77 on my case at every book which surveys as checkpoints.

Tayson Whittaker: Okay, how many books roughly? Excuse me how many books are on the loop.

Aurelian Sanchez: 13 books.

Tayson Whittaker: Wow: okay, yeah. So that is like a lot of wayfinding. Then, because it's not just like, okay, get to one book or 3 books. It's like You've got to find 13 books. That's okay. I I Didn't: I didn't realize that.

Aurelian Sanchez: Yeah, no. There are many books. And yeah, until the first book and the second book. Everyone is following each other, or almost. Let's say you have a pack of 2025%, which is a lot, and as soon as you reach the third book, then you start to have groups, smaller groups and this is what I did. We had a group of 3. I was with him, and another person, Luca, who joined us. But then there was the first group, so I think there were 3-4 people, the second group a against 3, 4 people, and then we were behind. So yeah, it depends on the base, but it's after several books that you find yourself into, into, into, into some small group.

Tayson Whittaker: So your so like you did that first loop executed it perfectly. You get out there. You start loop number 2. Do you go after Loop number 2 right away? Do you take any kind of a mandatory break, or is it just as much time as you want to take as a break you take. because you're right, you're looping back to the same point every time to the same central hub which is part of one of the coolest parts about this race, is just how minimalist the race organizers are, You know, a lot of races. You have big checkpoints. You got tons of volunteers. You got a ton of people on the ground helping you, whereas at this race, from what I can see there's very few volunteers there's very low costs. I mean. The cost to enter is a pack of smokes. If i'm not mistaken. It's just. It's all very, very interesting the way that they they've They've designed this. But so when you loop back in after the first loop. What? How much time are you there? How much time did you plan to be there?

Aurelian Sanchez: Yeah. So you're self sufficient when once you're in your loop, it's about. Yeah, As I said, 9 h for the first 2, but then the second loop and 3 4 5 are about 12 h. You're really such sufficient. So you have to deal with everything with the food and you with your gear. Really, when you are at camp, and you have to be careful about that to not leave too fast. But at the same time you don't want to leave to take a too long break, because the time is ticking, and you only have 60 h. So my breakout was 10 min after the first group, and basically what I did was to change my socks, my shoes, my T-shirts to eat a lot because I was at camp, and I had all my food so I ate a lot to bring more food with me. Water, new gear. So it was about that I didn't take time to rest or to sleep or anything, because this was just the first loop, but I didn't really take time to change my clothes and to eat a lot and drink a lot as well. And once I did that I started again my second loop as soon as possible, and it was about 10 min which was the maximum I was allowing me for this first transition.

Tayson Whittaker: That's extremely fast for those that have run an ultra marathon. I think you'll realize how fast 10 min goes right. I mean it. It's so fast especially after you've been out on the trail for hours and hours. So yeah, okay, so that's really fascinating. So you're hitting the trail. You've got a pretty good buffer, and you're heading out with Diam, and is Lucas still with you? Or no.

Aurelian Sanchez: no, no, you guys are not with us any more. I think it's taking a longer break, I think you. Yeah, I slow down before the end of the first week. So it was not business anymore. So I was with Diam, and we started in the reverse this time. So you change the sense of the loop. Sometimes you go clockwise, sometimes you go counterclockwise. So we had the first loop clockwise. Which is the easy direction. Let's say, in terms of navigation, but the second loop this year was counterclockwise. So we basically went back from where we came from, and we were about by ourselves with Diam, and at this time it was getting to be night time, so we had to put our headlamps on at the organization, and we had the second loop by night.

Tayson Whittaker: So are you repeating the same loop, going back to the same book locations and just picking a different page number

Aurelian Sanchez: Exactly. So I think My base was 99 at this time on the second loop instead of 77. And basically you go to the same books. So the books in Number 13, the last one from the first room was becoming the first one in the reverse direction. And basically you go through the same books again. But when you're approaching the books. It all looks different because you're approaching them in a different direction, and especially this one, was by night, and not by day, any time. So we did a few mistakes with the home at the beginning, About 15 min mistakes, I think. Yeah, we lost about 20 to 30 min in the second loop, because of that, because it was 9 times, because it was not really easy contact for quite the most difficult direction. Yeah, for navigation. So this is how we start.

Tayson Whittaker: Yeah. So finish Loop 2. You get delayed 20 to 30 min. Talk me through just what it's like to get like I'm sure was that the only time that you missed books, or did you miss books Throughout the event it was like, like, Get off navigation, I you know.

Aurelian Sanchez: Yeah. So I I think from this time from the second loop, we we really made a lot of an education or mistakes across across the race for Loop 2 3 4 and 5, Id I think, 30 to 40 min lost into navigational, but he, Indiana, was able to manage because I was moving faster on the train.
But yeah, it was difficult, because sometimes I was by myself, and sometimes I was with a group, but by myself it was difficult to make some navigational mistakes.


Tayson Whittaker: So by missing some of these waypoints, and and and having these delays, I imagine that's a very stressful thing, and can really work on the mind. You know you're in a race against time. You're in a race against others. You're pushing it's night. It's cold. You're tired. You're getting hung. You know all these factors are coming in, and then you make a 30 min navigation mistake. What is that like mentally to go through that process for you? I mean, I'm sure you're trying ahead of time to plan for that and say, like, I know I'm going to make a mistake. I know I'm going to do this, but in the field it is always different than in planning. Right?

Aurelian Sanchez: Yeah, yeah, no, of course. And this is exactly what you said. You have to prepare yourself for both of the different scenarios, and you have to prepare yourself that you're gonna be lost at some point, and that's that you have to keep calm, that you have to analyze where you're at. Open your map, analyze the terrain, analyze the river in front of you or the trail in front of you, and see where you're at, and analyze as best as you can. Of course you have your heart rate, which is becoming faster. You're a bit more stressed, but in the end you have to really analyze where you're at by opening your map, and eventually, after some working around back and forth in some different direction. You find yourself back in, of course. But yeah, I was, of course, stressed every time I was lost. But yeah, I did. I think the maximum issue I did was about 20 min error. But I was yeah. I was looking back at those trains, because exactly from what I said, looking at what is around you, the river, etc. So so yeah.

Tayson Whittaker: yeah. So when I think about this race, I think about the navigation side of things, and I've been a sportsman my whole life, and I've spent a lot of time off trail and quite a bit of time just reading top of graphical maps and and things like that, right? So I think in my head. I'm like I don't know, like I might be starting at a slightly higher advantage than someone else who's never had to do that. Who's only followed trails? Who's only done those kinds of things. But what I'm realizing is you're talking is I've I've I have done some. But navigating at night time is a completely different scenario. I'm wondering what your thoughts are on, you know. Is that what takes the majority of people out of the race is that navigation, maybe specifically navigating at night time? Probably the single biggest thing that that takes people out of the race

Aurelian Sanchez: one. It's one variable definitely. When you read the reports definitely. Some of them are failing because of that, not only about that but also about the physical aspect, or because of wrong nutrition and because of sleep deprivation. it all depends, but definitely navigation. He is one of them. And this is why Barkley is so important to me and so difficult for many. Because if you have one issue in only one variable example, for this one is navigation. Then you're dead, and you're not going to finish.

Tayson Whittaker: Yeah, yeah, I mean, I can imagine. I mean, that is what makes Barkley’s so interesting is that there's not one difficult factor, there's compounding difficult factors. So you you complete loop 2, and how much time?

Aurelian Sanchez: I think it was 21 h yeah loop 2. We did 9 h for the first loop and about 12 h for the second. So it was 21 hours.

Tayson Whittaker: Okay, Gotcha. to start loop loop 3. Are you still running with your partner at this point?

Aurelian Sanchez: No, I was by myself. I was by myself. I joined Jared Campbell and Carol Sabi at the beginning of Jared Campbell.

Tayson Whittaker: Jared Campbell is running, who’s completed the Barclays 2 or 3 times now.

Aurelian Sanchez: Yeah, it's exactly 3 times yeah.

Tayson Whittaker: and he didn't complete it this year.

Aurelian Sanchez: He did not. No, I stopped at the third group because he was. I think he's having knee issues. Okay, so yeah. But I spent most of the search group with him, and he had me for some navigation points in the third group. But then, after that, after the group, I was again by myself, and then I joined Carr. So yeah, Jared had some issues, and he was not able to complete this area.


Tayson Whittaker: Why would someone help another runner? That's not like it. It makes sense if you start the race kind of in a team mindset or a mentor mindset. But why would someone who's maybe not trained with you? Don't know you personally. Why would they be willing to help you?

Aurelian Sanchez: Yeah. So it's about cooperation. If you have someone else, he will help you out again. It's all about cooperation, because you're not running against the runners really running against the race itself. I think nobody has finished it for the last 6 years. So of course you want to help each other out, and you know that you're not gonna finish by You're not going to be 5 people finishing. You're gonna need to help user renders next to you, so you can also help you out in the future. In the next 2 parcels. So you really have to cooperate, and the navigation is much easier when you're 2 people focused 100. Then, compared if you're by yourself, and this is exactly the purpose to be stronger together, and eventually you're going to succeed or the other one is going to succeed, and you're gonna all succeed against the race, which is the beauty of this race compared to other racing events.

Tayson Whittaker: It's an interesting scenario to put yourself into, because I imagine that's kind of like with the FKT’s I've talked to. If you guys that set FKT’s, and they're rooting for people, you know they're cheering for people that are attempting their Fkt, which seems backwards because most people want their record to stand for a long time. Right? So it's. It's a very interesting dynamic that that, I guess comes out in, you know, as if you're out there. So yeah.
So you complete loop 2 loop 3. Was there any moonlight just wondering if or is it completely dark, do they?

Aurelian Sanchez: No, not at all. Because you're in the forest? So basically. Even if there is moonlight. It's a hole hidden by the trees. You don't see the light, so I don't think he was even moonlight at this time of the race. And no, it really was. It was a really dark night.


Tayson Whittaker: Okay. So you get through now your complete loop 3, maybe loop 4. What do you remember, what kind of your times were coming into those?

Aurelian Sanchez: Yeah, so I did the third group in 33 h. I think so. Yeah, what? 21 yeah, 12 h again for the loop stream and the root 3 was daytime, and it was also a reverse direction. It was like group 2, but instead of night time it was day time. So you know, I kind of compensated for the fact that I was more tired during the search group but by daytime it was easier, so I was able to do about the same time as the previous group. So it was about yes, 33 h when I finished by myself for the third group, and at this time I think I took about 20 min break before the first, loop, because the first loop was going to be by night and I will really want you to have some sleep before going back to the because then I was a second night where I was into my race, and I knew that I was gonna face some some issue during during this time. So that's what I did. I took a 20 min break, and then I started again. My first loop.

Tayson Whittaker: So 20 min break! Is that 20 min of sleep, or is that total break time?

Aurelian Sanchez: It was 20 min of sleep. Let's say I was laying down on the floor for 20 min, and I think I had about 10 min of sleep during this 20 min, but it was. It was enough for me, at least, to start moving again. It was not much cheaper compared to what we had to expect on the ultra. But it was better than nothing, and it's what made me happy to start fresh almost here.

Tayson Whittaker: So was that the only time you slept during the event.

Aurelian Sanchez: Yeah, exactly. Because for the first loop I didn't see the roof. And then, when I finished my first loop, it was daytime. So yeah, I wasn't able to not see better.

Tayson Whittaker: So 58 h race on basically 10 min of sleep. Yeah, that's crazy. So going into Loop 4, that's gotta be concerning, because now you've got you. You've been running 12 h loops. You only have about a 3 h, Buffer, and now you're going to go route running at night.
How did Loop 4 go?

Aurelian Sanchez: Loop 4 was difficult. I was with cover halfway, and we were sleep deprived, both of us. I was rushing in front of him, and I was a virgin, so I didn't really know my way to go, and was also sleep deprived, so he was not able to fix my mistake soon enough. Let's say so. We lost a lot of time doing navigation on mistakes we should not have made during this first half. So this is how we started, and then at the half of the loop. I decided to go by myself, because I was more confident about the next section that was gonna come up. So I moved faster and tried in order to try to go with the front group. And this is what I did, and I didn't make any navigational mistakes from that, because I was really 100% focused and not counting on the car. So he was. It was yeah. 2 loops in one first half was covered. The second half was almost 100 by my side, but 100% focused and perfectly executed. Let's say until I finished in 46 h, I think.

Tayson Whittaker: Okay, so you still got You still got a bit of a buffer on a 12 h loop, or at this point in time got about 2 h buffer plus or 12 h that you're typically allotted. So you're sitting in a pretty good position, completing loop 4, and then the way that loop 5 works, if I understand, One person will go one direction. The next person has to go the reverse direction. Right? So that you're separating. Essentially, every other person is having to go in the opposite direction. So were you the first to start out? Did you get to choose the direction, or did someone else go first?

Aurelian Sanchez: No, I, John Kelly. John Kelly, was the one who went first because he was the first one to arrive, and he was ready before me. So he was first out, so I had to take the second direction, which was the contour clockwise. John decided to take the clockwise because of personal reasons, and because he was more familiar with it, I think so. I had to go with the contact request, which was not the direction I wanted at the beginning. I knew I was gonna face some navigational error contract requirements, and this is what I did. But I managed, I think the error, whatever time it took about 15 min, and I I think I did 3 of them, so I lost about 40 min. but every time I was able to manage by going faster when I was on terrain that I knew perfectly. So yeah, I wanted to contact him. Because I was the second person to choose. I mean, I didn't choose. So John Kelly.

Tayson Whittaker: how much behind John Kelly. Did you start

Aurelian Sanchez: 5 min just 5 min behind? We had a very fast transition where John accelerated him, said, because he wanted to choose the direction, I see. But we were at camp at the same time.

Tayson Whittaker: Gotcha. So are these loops. The same year after year, meaning like, if you've run this race before, are you running the same loop?

Aurelian Sanchez: Yeah, most of them. Yeah, it's changing every year a little bit when you finish or you make. He makes the last race a bit more difficult but he does that from the actual race every time. So once you do it, you're really more familiar with the race, and then it's changing a little bit from it. So, of course, the veterans who did it in the past are very more familiar than the Virgin.

Tayson Whittaker: Yeah, that's really interesting.

Aurelian Sanchez: Yeah.

Tayson Whittaker: So you start loop 5 here. You're headed off completely on your own daytime or night time. At this point

Aurelian Sanchez: 5 was daytime, for until the finish almost there, there was 1 h by night at the finish, but otherwise the full fifth loop was by day.

Tayson Whittaker: Okay, and there's kind of a legendary aspect. I feel like that's starting with your particular loop, because you got to a book, and it wasn't there right?

Aurelian Sanchez: Not my last loop, and not my last book, but to the one before my the book number 12 on my last loop, and it was not there, as you said. So I was frustrated. That was like, I'm gonna lose my finish just because of that.

Tayson Whittaker: So this is a loop You haven't done right. So you don't know for sure the book was supposed to be in an exact spot like you. Haven't already torn a page out of that book.

Aurelian Sanchez: I know I know you. You go through the same books every time.

Tayson Whittaker: Okay.

Aurelian Sanchez: So at every loop you go through the same books. But this time it was missing. Compared to it was not missing the first 4 loops. so I actually knew something was going on. This is why I lost. I think, about only 5 min. and I started to move again because it was not there, and it should have been there. But I was frustrated, of course.

Tayson Whittaker: Okay, okay, so I didn't realize that. So the loop, the loop is roughly the same loop every time. It's what makes it so then, like year to year, he may change the book's location on the loop. But it's basically. The same. Okay, okay, so that that makes more sense. Because I had heard you talk about this, and you had said. You're very confident the book should have been right here and in my head I'm thinking Well, how can you have such a degree of confidence? But you knew that because you'd already taken 4 pages out of that book. Exactly. Okay. So you walk around. You lose about 15 min in that book.

Aurelian Sanchez: Yeah, right and then

Tayson Whittaker: frustrated. But you're so close, and you had said that you knew that you had completed it. So you weren't worried about not having the page out of that book right?

Aurelian Sanchez: No, not much. I was not worried because I knew I had completed the race. I mean. I was going to complete the race. So I was really feeling emotional already. At this time I was crying, and I was. I was shivering so it was good for me. You know I was just frustrated about having this feeling of not being complete. Let's say to bring 12 pages instead of searching to the end. But that was it. Otherwise I knew I was gonna do it. So it was a mixed feeling, you know.

Tayson Whittaker: Yeah. So you only have the 12 pages when you return. Is that right? So walk me through what it was like finishing this race at any point. Do you start to wonder if you're going to be the first finisher?

Aurelian Sanchez: No, no; I was expecting to be the second from this phrase I was expecting for John to have arrived already. I didn't even ask. When told me that John was out there. I was surprised at the finish, and that's not really what I wanted but I was. It was crazy, I mean I was leaving my dream. It's been 6 years I was leaving that dreaming about that, and then I got from the forest very sole, quiet and and calm, and you get into the to the gate, and you have all the crowd, and screaming and cheering for you to to arrive, and and you think about your your family, my girlfriend, receipt, and all the people that are back in France and following, and it's a mixed feelings, a lot of emotion at camp with the people cheering and with the family and girlfriend in France, cheering by distance. So It was just such a great memory and emotion. It was yeah, I was leaving my dream. So it was particularly

Tayson Whittaker: awesome to see that happen for you. I mean 6 years of a process of training building. Basically a portfolio of it runs and events of completions and records it. There's so much that went into this race for you. I think it's easy to say in my head. I'm thinking this is your first attempt and you go out there and crush it. I mean you, you you it it's so phenomenal, but it also just goes back into a testament of what you've put in for 6 years leading up to this race. Right?

Aurelian Sanchez: I'm running this race.

Tayson Whittaker: But you've put so much into this point.

Aurelian Sanchez: No, no, no, it was not only like, Of course you have to be lucky for this right, but it was not only about that. I put a lot of effort into that for the last 6 years. I, of course, didn't expect to finish on my first attempt. I mean I expected, and I did my best to do that. But I was feeling okay to not do that on my first visit, because you have to know the background and the 3 on the race. Not many people finish on the first attempt, and to do that it was such a great feeling. And yeah, I deserve that it's so much effort I put across a year, but I'm feeling very, very grateful for what happened on my first attempt. There are not many people who have that. And yeah, it was the race of my life. Really, I had amazing emotions, or during the full race.

Tayson Whittaker: Do you know how many people completed it on their very first attempt?

Aurelian Sanchez: Not exactly. I think we are about 4 people, maybe out of the 17, 4, or 5, maybe. I'm not really sure you

Tayson Whittaker: Wow. Yeah, that's incredible. So obviously that's a huge highlight finishing it is such a massive highlight. There was another highlight during the race that stood out to you like a time when it was just like you're at the highest of high during the race.

Aurelian Sanchez: No, it is difficult. It's difficult to tell. I think my best highlight was the finish, obviously otherwise the second highlight, when it was when Diam quit it. I wanted him to finish as well. but there were many things as well as they were. I don't know, yeah. The main highlight for me was the finish. Also, wise before that, during the race I was executing perfectly. Everything happens mostly and and great in it, despite the navigation or errors, of course. but the finish was amazing. Everything every time I think about the race. I'm thinking about the finish, of course.

Tayson Whittaker: What do you think was the lowest point during the race?

Aurelian Sanchez: I think it was my first loop definition. My first loop, when I was discovered, was deeply deprived. I was not really focused anymore. I was counting on him too much, and I was feeling like I was very yeah. I needed to sleep, but I was not able to, because I was out there. So it was a low moment, but it was not that low. After 20-30 min I was back again moving, and it was okay.

Tayson Whittaker: Did you think that that you were? Was there ever a point where you thought I've made too big of a mistake. It's maybe I'm not going to be able to to complete this like, did you like? Is that, is that what you are feeling in that moment on loop for

Aurelian Sanchez: no, not really. I started to feel this at the second loop, when I was feeling like the time limit was getting closer. I am so far away from the finish line. It was 18 h and 42 h was remaining, and it was like time. Limits are getting closer now, so it's gonna be a big deal. It's gonna be difficult but one step after a yeah one at a time, you know things are getting closer to the finish, and I was doubting for the first 40 h, let's say. But as I was keeping moving on the force loop. And when I moved through my second night, and was it when it was day time for my first loop? I was feeling okay. I was feeling. Okay, you can do it. So I was actually feeling pretty good.

Tayson Whittaker: Yeah, yeah, it seems like you did. You run? You ran a very consistent race. You didn't get behind. You know too much where you're. You're fighting that clock you know, like you had that little bit of a buffer, and you're able to kind of manage that buffer through so many of these laps. It seems. you know, from this side of the table. It's like man. He ran it so well. I'm sure from your side of the table. It didn't always feel that way right, but

Aurelian Sanchez: almost almost like that. It really was. I use a lot of real trust in, and every time there is something going on being issues that you have to deal with, and this time it was not really big issues. It was no, it was great, really. I was feeling good. I was leaving my dream. I was having fun actually. Why, people think you don't have fun during the Barkley, and it was sharing with people sharing with the other runners, leading to my dream. I was feeling happy to be there this year, despite the finish, just leaving the race, you know. So it was good.

Tayson Whittaker: So there's 3 finishers this year. In the last 6 years there's been no finishers. Do you think that weather had anything to do with that this year was a pretty hot year, right? And there was no rain. Do you think that had anything to do with it? Do you think that it was more of the synergy of the runners working together? What are your thoughts on that?

Aurelian Sanchez: No, of course, I mean. But you don't have to. We don't have to say it's because of the way that there is a free finish. It's about everything. Of course, if you have bad weather or the race, maybe nobody finishes. But this is also because we were ready. Me, Kara and John. We really put a lot of effort into that. So, of course, the weather was okay. but it's not only about the weather, and of course, if it was worse, we would have spent more time on the course. We would have been slower and scarlet. John and I will not have finished. Maybe so. It's a combination of the 2, of course, and of course you have to hope for it. The best ways are possible. But when the best weather is here you have to take advantage of it, and when you take advantage of it because you train properly. So it's a combination of the 2.

Tayson Whittaker: Yeah. Are you gonna go back and do this again?

Aurelian Sanchez: Yeah, I would love it. So I would love it, hopefully next year, but we'll see it's also a big investment. It's also a big personal investment, so I want to have a balance in my life. I want to make the decision wisely in the smart way with my girlfriend we see, and with my family, etc., because you have to train for this event. It's not only about applying and racing you have to apply, but then you have to prepare for it for a couple of months and it's quite a commitment, even though it's fun in the end. It's a commitment that you don't have to take lightly. So of course I already would. I would like to do it again. But i'm not going to say today. I'm going to decide by the end of the year, and we will see him.

Tayson Whittaker: Yeah, I think that's really smart. And I think it is. It's a massive commitment just to train right, let alone take the time off to go and do the event. It's so much personal time to train for an event like that. It's huge. Yeah I wanted to ask you this: Just kind of some takeaways from this. What? What don't people understand about themselves until they've tried something like this right? What what have you learned through the process of doing efforts like this that you don't feel like maybe other people, the general general public, maybe hasn't, been able to experience

Aurelian Sanchez: strengths and weaknesses. I would say, I think during your trial you face your weaknesses, and you have to deal with them, and you also see that you can push your limits further. Usually with us we think we are limited but we actually are not limited. I mean, we can do great things out there we can. We can prove ourselves that we can run for a long time, but we can also prove ourselves that we have a lot of weaknesses to deal with and I think this is the beauty of virtual running. It's like you're gonna face yourself, your strengths and your weaknesses, and by not doing that you don't really know exactly what they are. And this is what I learned through the last 6 years. I learned where I'm not really good at, and where I could improve. And I learned that also I was limiting myself, and that I could do better. So it's a combination of those 2 I would say.

Tayson Whittaker: how much? How much of this race win was mental versus physical.

Aurelian Sanchez: Yeah, yeah, it's a good question And as an engineer and I someone who likes numbers. I was asking myself this question for a long time. Where is the number of 50/50, 70/30, 80/20, you know. And actually I finally found the answer this year. I think it's not a number. It's the 2 together. If you don't have one of the 2, you're gonna fail. You need to be physically ready and you need to be mentally ready, and it's not about. So you could say 50, 15, let's say, but it's not about a number you really need to have the 2. You have to love that event. You have to be attracted to Barkley. You have to be focused, and 100% obsessed by the event and determined to do that. And at the same time you have to be physically ready. So it's not one on top of the other. It's really the 2 together.

Tayson Whittaker: Yeah, I think I think you could say 50/50, or you could say a 100% and a 100%. So like, So when you talk just just to go on the mental tangent for just a second When you're talking about training for the mental aspect, do you find that most of your training happens in big, big events and proving to yourself that you can do these massive efforts? Or do you find that your mental training happens on a week to week training basis

Aurelian Sanchez: In daily life, I would say, really, at some point I was thinking about it properly every day in the past years. Yeah, I think every bar, every every runners from the broccoli are thinking about this event a lot on the daily life, and I think this is important, because then, when you're in the race, you really don't want to quit, because you know all the investments are the involvement of of what you've done in your personal life. So I think this is really in your daily life. And of course, during your big events, your big racing, this is where you learn on how to struggle and how to overcome. This is part of the package. Let's say you really have to be focused 100% every day, and in everything that you do And there is Jarrett Cumber, for example, I I love what he says. He says that every time he has a small issue during his daily life at work at home. He's thinking about marketing. He's thinking, okay, it's. It's a small test. It's a more regular size for me to overcome and to be patient and to accept that this is a program that I need to sort of. And this will be. This would make me better at barking. And this is actually exactly the answer you have to think about it every time every day

Tayson Whittaker: I had a mentor of mine one time. Tell me that they like to get up and run, or do exercise every day, and do something really hard as the first thing that they do every day. because they said the rest of the day when hard things come up they've already. They already know that they can do hard things. They've already done it that day. They've done it the day before, and it really does just build, and I feel like. That's a lot of what you just said there, too, you know. Just Just learn to do hard things. Train yourself to do hard things. Don't run away from hard things.

Aurelian Sanchez: What is interesting about the Barkley's is that in your personal life you can apply this to the Barkley and both ways. So what you, whatever you are training the Barkley, you can adapt to your personal life, and it's basically a learning process. And this is what I like about 0 to try. It's really a learning process for who you are in your daily life.

Tayson Whittaker: Yeah, yeah. Talking about gear and nutrition. Did you do it? Do you have a second for a little bit? A few more questions. Okay, okay. So really, quickly, I wanted to talk about the year and nutrition starting off with gear. Was there a piece of gear that just stood out to you this year? That, like your favorite piece of gear on trail. Is it your backpack shoes, or something like that

Aurelian Sanchez: to me? It was my cough protection. Let's say against the buyers? I have some kind of orienteering socks, let's say which goes right until under the knee. And it was amazing I was really flying the descent and not feeding any briars. So it was really amazing, and a lot of people are now using that, and we don't feel the briars any more things to that. So it was really a difference. Maker.

Tayson Whittaker: Wow, yeah, that seems like a very smart move. I watched the documentary, and you can call the the race that eats their young, and you can see people's lakes just bleeding, and and I mean it looks pretty pretty cut up and pretty gnarly, so that that does seem like a secret power, a a great great piece of gear for this particular piece. How much gear were you taking out on the trail? Were you going out with just a small running vest? Were you talking like a fast pack, or you know what? What capacity, and how much stuff were you taking out on each loop?

Aurelian Sanchez: I have. I had a very light backpack, which was about 10 liters. It was running west. We need to flask in front of you, and I didn't have much inside. I actually had the outdoor vital vest in my backpacking, if there was any rain, but mostly cold that I actually didn't have to put on because I was. There was no rain, and it was okay. But I was mostly yeah. I was having only that in my backpack gloves. But I I had to give birth and 2 pairs of goals, because it was quite cold. and I think it was about that. Then, of course, I had a headlamp. I had a battery for the headlamp. I had my survival kids, let's say, if I had twisted my ankle things like this, but in terms of clothing. Yeah, only what I just said. My food, of course. And yeah, I don't think I forgot. Yeah, of course. Then you have to get your compass, your map because you have to find your way yourself. You don't have a GPS, of course. So yeah, I think that was all on your list already.

Tayson Whittaker: Yeah, Secretly, I was hoping it would rain for like 5 s you could put the Tushar Rain Jacket on, but not a big deal so how much water are you taking? You said You have 2 flasks. Are you able to on the trail like, is there? Are you just scooping out of creeks?

Aurelian Sanchez: Yeah, exactly. So. There are many creeks during the Barkleys, so I had only one liter, 500 mm on each side, and he tried. It was enough. Every 1 h I was able to drink from the river, and the river was pretty clean during the race. So it was. It was perfect. At some point we had the water frozen at the tower. The tower is one of the points where you have gallons of water, and it was frozen, and so we were not able to drink it. But there are a lot of rivers, so we were able to drink before and after that. So it was pretty pretty. Okay.

Tayson Whittaker: That's that's cold. I mean, if it's freezing a solid gallon of water. Right? It's getting cold at night, like really cool. Yeah, that's wild. That's a whole other element, right, both physically and mentally, to deal with. What was your favorite food you were taking on the trail? Not at not the cheeseburgers. It's your rig. But what was your favorite thing? What's your favorite thing to eat during a loop?

Aurelian Sanchez: I think he was really cheeseburgers. So I was Really,

Tayson Whittaker: You took them out on the trail?

Aurelian Sanchez: Oh, yeah, definitely. I had 2 of them every time.

Tayson Whittaker: There are these like microwave cheeseburgers, or these like from a restaurant? Or who's making these cheeseburgers?

Aurelian Sanchez: They were coming from Sonic. I think If you know, Sonic.

Tayson Whittaker: Yeah, I know that it's not a high quality hamburger there. I mean, I think I was thinking like you're eating some grass fed gourmet hamburger.

Aurelian Sanchez: No, no, no, it was really no quality Hamburger. But he made the image of the job. And yeah, Alexand, who was at camp. He was going to Sonic every day. So he went sonic on Wednesday, and on Thursday to buy about 5 cheeseburgers every time for me on the loop and for at camp as well.

Tayson Whittaker: Oh, my goodness.

Aurelian Sanchez: yeah, yeah,

Tayson Whittaker: That is, that is awesome. That's something I need to figure out for myself personally. I'm gonna run the same. I'm not a runner. I've never been a runner. I'm, you know, I'm a 200 lbs. guy you know, and I aspire to get better at this, and so I'm gonna run that ultra Marathon. I ran again last year. Try to improve things, but I like the biggest thing I have to learn better with experience. Right, just like you said is fueling and hydration. I really felt that hydration was the biggest thing because I'm a heavy sweater. So

Aurelian Sanchez: Okay,

Tayson Whittaker: I lose. I like it on a day when it's 65 degrees out and 70 degrees out. In my first hour of running I'll lose 2 liters of water in sweat, so I have some challenges to overcome, and figuring some of that out a little bit, and and also, maybe even some gut training of how to consume just more fluid right? But that's, that's what I mean. Maybe I'll have to,

Aurelian Sanchez: Maybe you need to try cheeseburger, but it's not easy. It's not easy, and there is not only one single recipe. But I think this is actually it. You have to try what works for some other people, not only me, but every runner. That's what I do. Actually cheeseburger. I think, was from Carr Sabi. So there’s a bedroom guy who told Diam, and Diam told me that maybe we should try cheeseburgers, and that's what we did one week before the race. So I think it's all about inspiration. What people are doing. You just tried this one week before the race, this isn't even something that you had been doing for a long period of time. Yeah, exactly. But we were able to do that very well during our training runs, and it was great. So I was not really concerned.

Tayson Whittaker: If you had not done that. What was your plan? B. What was your plan before the cheeseburger?

Aurelian Sanchez: I was gonna bring bacon jerky with me for protein and flat things like this bread. So yeah, things like this for cards, protein fats And then it is very similar. Yeah, very similar, you know just a different project, but it's very similar. So it was. Yeah, I was. I was confident it would be okay.

Tayson Whittaker: Yeah, that's awesome. Well, Aurelian and I've really appreciated your time walking us through this event. It was such a unique event. It's such a unique story to come in on a 6 year journey. Attempt this your first time, Get the job done to be the second non American to ever even finish this race. I mean the very, very first person to ever finish this race was a guy from Britain, I believe

Aurelian Sanchez: Mark Williams exactly the first one,

Tayson Whittaker: And then, I don't know how many years has that been? It's been 36 years essentially since

Aurelian Sanchez: No, Mark Williams finished in 95 or 96. I don't remember exactly. I think it was 96. So it's been now. Yeah, about 25 years. That No. Yeah. 20, 27 years, that's 9 mark Williams. Finished. So yeah, it's it's a long time.

Tayson Whittaker: It's really cool. It's a really cool story. Make sure to go Check out. Aurelian's Instagram. You did a great job, you know, reposting things and sharing things there was. It was really cool to see the reception that France gave you, how much attention I mean, that was really cool and well deserved. And so, yeah, make sure to go. Check out Aurelian's, Instagram account anywhere else that that you want people to to come follow you or

Aurelian Sanchez: No, mostly I'm gonna share it through Instagram. I'm using strava as well for my training. Only if people are interested to see my training and want to see, want to know what can be done. Maybe they can get inspiration there as well, but otherwise I'm sharing what I'm doing on Instagram. So yeah

Tayson Whittaker: Well, I think it is very inspirational. Again, Just really appreciate your time. Congratulations on completing this dream and this goal . It is inspirational to me. It's inspirational to everyone that's going to be listening to this podcast. So, thanks so much

Aurelian Sanchez: And good day, and I really appreciate it's You are supportive during my preparation for the jacket and for the patient around that. So thank you so much for sharing that it's important. Important.

Tayson Whittaker: No, I mean, that was our pleasure. We appreciate it. Be able to send that over to you. So yeah, we'll see a future episode hopefully, if you, if you do end up doing some other big efforts, which I'm sure you'll do some big efforts. I'm sure. Maybe it'll end up being the first 3 time interview on the Live Ultralight Podcast. Thanks. Thanks so much for Aurelian.

Aurelian Sanchez: I would love that? Yeah, Thank you, Tayson. Thank you so much.