EP 125 - A Man Pushes A Cart From Virginia To California: Paul Ferraro Interview

Tayson: Hey everybody, welcome back to the Live Ultralight Podcast, powered by Outervitals. Today, we have a phenomenal interview with Paul Ferraro. Before I give an introduction, if you are new to this podcast, I just wanted to remind you that this podcast is all about getting you outdoors more comfortably and more confidently. Um and this podcast today was really, really interesting. Paul is someone who has a wealth of experience, who's all about setting massive, massive goals and then chasing those goals down in the name of a good cause. And he has some really fun stories that he shared here today, but let me do a quick intro here and then we'll dive right into that conversation. So, Paul, after a successful 30-year career in the tech industry, um retired in 2014 and set his sights on walking. Across United States from Virginia to California to raise money for the Navy SEAL Foundation. Um this 3,121-mile effort earned him recognition from both CNN and Fox News, along with many other local news outlets, as he worked to complete the journey in 2015. In addition to the walk across America, he made a trek uh from Ireland to Rome. That was 2,000 miles. He also walked the Camino de Santiago from France to uh Spain.

Tayson: That was a 500-mile effort, in which he's actually headed back to do again this year. He claims though that his most challenging walk of his life was from Miami to Key West, which is only 140 miles, um and which we do cover in this podcast cuz that was quite interesting, too. But, today, uh we'll talk about all these kinds of trips. And a whole lot more. So, the interview was awesome. There's going to be some awesome takeaways, but also there's just a lot of inspiration in what he's doing, um both for himself and for this foundation that he's supporting. So, with that, let's go ahead and jump right into this interview. Hey Paul, I'm really looking forward to chatting with you today and I wanted to just start off by asking you, of all of these hikes walks that you have done, you stated that your hardest hike was actually the shortest one I have on my list here, 140 miles in 3 days from Miami to Key West. What happened on that hike?

Paul: So, I had just finished doing the United States and I was exhausted. I spent uh quite a bit of time trying to rehab and I had a bad walk across the United States and a Navy SEAL, retired Navy SEAL, who had just finished uh with his cancer uh treatments decided he wanted to do it and he called the foundation and said, "I need some help on fundraising." And they said, "Oh, let me give you this guy's name." And he just finished the United States and he called me up. I met him and I was like, "You know what? I'll do it with you." Which was a big mistake because we did it in 3 days and I had no idea about the humidity and there's no chance to get away from the sun. And it. Was it was just brutal. And this guy had been he was older than me. He had just finished chemo. So, we would get done walking like ridiculous amounts and he would just walk over and throw up and say, "I'll be right with you." And come right back. And I'm like, "I can't quit, you know, not with not when this guy's doing this." But I should have given myself more time to recuperate.

Tayson: Yeah, so I mean, in that kind of uh I mean, in that pace, I guess, are you walking what, 47 miles a day or something like that?

Paul: Yeah, well, we broke it up a little bit different. We did I think 35 the first day and then made up more time the next two because the uh Blue Angels were going to be at the end in Key West and they wanted to, you know, recognize him. So, we had to kind of push it along a little bit. So, it we it kind of became a game with the two of us, you know, like, "Do you want to quit?" No, I don't want to quit, but I was hurting. I was dying. I don't even like the drive now from Miami to Key West. I don't even want to drive there.

Tayson: Completely ruined it for you.

Paul: Yeah, it was it but it's a great cause and and I I didn't mind helping him and it raised a lot of extra money that he wouldn't have gotten.

Tayson: Yeah, that's that's phenomenal and I and I definitely want to get into to the whys here but.

Paul: Sure, sure.

Tayson: Where where did you like have you always been someone who's have you run? Have you done ultras? Have you have you have you walked a lot or like where did this whole idea even come from?

Paul: I started with marathons. I did three Marine Corps marathons back to back to back. And that came because we had a young girl living with us who I talked into going into the Marine Corps. And she was going to be sent away and I said, "I'll tell you what." And my wife was sitting across the table when I was talking on the phone to her. I said, "Until you get out of the Marines, I'll run the Marine Corps marathon in your honor every year." My wife looked at me and went, "You never run a marathon." And I'm like, "Well, how hard can it be? It's only 26.2 miles." And I ran three in a row. Thank God she got out of the Marine Corps cuz I'd still be running them. But it was something that. I committed to do and I said, "You know what? I'm going to do it." So, the Marine Corps marathon's different though because that's a timed marathon. You can't walk that.

Tayson: Okay.

Paul: If you don't make it by a certain time, they sweep you. They just At 19 miles, they pull you off the course.

Tayson: Okay.

Paul: So, it it was an experience but then from that I decided walking would be a little bit better and I could do it a lot longer in my lifespan than the running.

Tayson: What's what's like the cut off pace? Like what pace do you have to stay?

Paul: So, you've got to be around 5 hours at at the latest. If you're more than 5 hours, 5 and 1/2, they're going to pull you. And.

Tayson: Yeah.

Paul: Few years ago, there was 40,000 runners. So, there there's a lot of runners that do it.

Tayson: So, that's about a that's about a 12-minute mile pace.

Paul: Yeah, about a 12-minute. Yeah.

Tayson: Do they usually run those on like flatter country or is it kind of.

Paul: Yeah, it's always run in Washington D.C. So it starts at the uh War Memorial and then it goes winds through and comes through Washington. It's it's a great marathon because so many people support it.

Tayson: Yeah.

Paul: But it's just a little difficult because, you know, if you don't make this bridge, I think it's the 19th Street Bridge. If you don't make the bridge by a certain time and they got like a countdown timer, you're swept.

Tayson: Yeah.

Paul: Yeah, you're in a bus and your marathon's over.

Tayson: Was it harder or easier to do than you initially thought it would be? Cuz I think there's this misconception with with people out there that like it happens a lot in ultra running like.

Paul: Yep.

Tayson: I was told this story once of a guy of a of a friend of mine. He's on an airplane and he was talking about this this race for ultra trail runners. It's a 100-mile race called Hardrock 100. It's in Colorado and it's some of the most gnarly terrain possible. And the guy was asking questions about it cuz cuz this friend of mine is a big runner and the guy said, you know, so how fast do they run it in? And he gives them the time and he's like, "That's only like 4 and 1/2 miles an hour. Like I could do that." And the guy just like lost it on him because he cuz these guys are like they're absolute ins- so insane, right? But but you think about like, "Oh, 4 miles an hour. How. Hard is that really?" But you stretch that out over 26 miles or 100 miles or whatever you're doing, it really ups the tempo. So I'm just curious from your perspective when you signed up versus the reality of it, what did it meet your expectations? Is it harder than you thought?

Paul: It was it was hard. I over prepared for everything. So I was prepared for it. But in retrospect, looking back, it's I would rather do a marathon because you're done. You you're in pain for, you know, 5-6 hours and then you recuperate in two or 3 days. When you do a long distance walk like the United States for 5 straight months you're every day dealing with all the opposite hiding every night. You know, I got to hide. I mean, I can't pitch a tent wherever I want and being wet and the cold and you know, just like you said, I had a a guy pull up and start talking to me and he said, "Well, how many miles do you do a day?" And I told him it varies and yada yada yada. And he. Said, "That doesn't sound hard." And I was standing there and I'm like, this cart weighs 90 lb. Push this thing up these hills and mountains and do that, you know? But everybody thinks, "Well, how hard is it to walk?" You know, it's not hard to walk.

Tayson: Right.

Paul: Most people have never walked more than 10 miles in a day, have no idea of what it's like to walk 50 miles in a day. Have no clue.

Tayson: Yeah.

Paul: And even now, like as I train for September um I'll go out and do 15 miles and my neighbors will say, "How many miles did you do?" I said, "Well, just 15." They go, "Well, that's easy." I'm like, "Well, any day you want to go with me, let's go. Let's go, you know, I'm ready.".

Tayson: Yeah, it it truly is something you just have to experience it, too. And then you're out there. It's not like you're doing this in a gym. It's not like you're doing this on a treadmill, right? It's every day different conditions, different weather, different terrain. Um you know, you may have sections that's that's going to be smooth, some sections that maybe that Well, and and now I've now I've got to ask, right? So So cuz I'm curious about this cart. So we got to get to we got to get to this cart that apparently you you were pushing around. But but before we get there, so you you actually finished up your career in 2014. And then you set your sights on raising money for the SEALs, Navy SEALs. Um what was the what was the. Reasoning behind that? Like do you have a touch point with that or what what was the the connection.

Paul: Let me Let me back up. My My father was a military career man. He had served in Korea and two tours in Vietnam. Never told us a war story, ever. Not even once. As he's in hospice dying, and he was a sergeant, and wasn't an officer, he told the doctor, "Give this note, call my son." So, the doctor reads the note to me, and he says, "Sarge says be at the hospital at 0600." That meant, "You better be there at 0600 next morning. I don't care how you get here, be there." And the doc said to me, he goes, "It's kind of funny cuz he hasn't talked in 2 weeks. He's been on straight, you know, morphine and water. He's dying." So, we fly down, like two brothers. One of my brothers is no longer. Here, but we fly down. I'm the oldest. We walk in, and he starts telling us war stories at 6:00 till 5:00.

Tayson: Oh, wow.

Paul: And the whole time he's telling us the build-up to how twice in his military career, both in Vietnam, he was actually saved by special force community, Navy SEALs. Um he passes away the next morning. We get back on the plane, we go home. We knew it was coming. We had already said our goodbyes, but we said our goodbyes to someone that didn't make a comment to us, you know? We just figured he was gone. The last thing he told me was, "One of you three do something for the community." And that was around 2002. I started working with corporations that I knew as a CEO of a company. Building relationships so that I could go back to them later and say, "I don't want money from my neighbor and my brother-in-law. I want money from. Corporations, and I don't want to touch the money. I want the money to go from Cisco or AT&T directly to the Navy SEAL Foundation, so that I can stay blameless. I I No one can ever say that I touched the money." And it took me a number of years to come up with what activity I would do and it was an article that I saw that a girl running across the country.

Paul: And I went, "No, I don't want to run, but I would walk." And I initially asked my wife to follow me in our RV and she said, "Uh no and hell no." And I said, "Why?" So, in talking to all these different manufacturers and companies, I developed a relationship and I kept teasing them, "Maybe next year. Maybe next year." And then I. Realized I'm getting older. If I don't do it soon, it's going to be really painful. So, you asked about the cart, Thule, which was one of my sponsors. I called them up and I said, "You know, I'm thinking about pushing a cart because I don't want to carry that much gear. Like water weighs 8 lb a gallon. In the desert, you need 5 gallons a day at least between cleaning, cooking, you know, you're you're a backpacker. You need a lot of water. And I said, "I don't think I can carry this much weight on my back. I I'd rather have a cart." The big mistake I made was I didn't listen to some people that have done it that said solid core tires are the way to go. I did air tires and I changed. Flats all day long. Anything gives you a flat, but.

Tayson: Well, that So, So, that's really that's really interesting and and what a story. I mean, that's that's It's interesting I I hope you had a recorder on if if it was possible and your dad was sharing all those stories. That's that's such a special day.

Paul: Not too much cuz we didn't expect it. You know, we we kind of thought he had written some notes and he wanted to share and then he was We knew he was close to dying. When he started talking, we were like, "Where's this coming from?" And these stories were just, you know, like, "Wow." And "What do we do with that? Like, how do I find something cuz I'm very funny about charities. I want to make sure that the charity is giving that money to the end user. Like as a CEO, I don't want to hear that the CEO's making 700,000 a year.

Tayson: Right.

Paul: All right?

Tayson: Yeah.

Paul: And the Navy SEAL Foundation is 12 people on the board, 11 of them are retired SEALs. And the money is like 97, 98% going to the families. So when I figured all that out, I went to meet with them and they didn't like me. The group that I met with, the some of the SEALs were.

Tayson: Or what?

Paul: No, I was They were very suspicious of me. They didn't like they didn't go out of the way to help at all. Now I've probably got 80 friends that are either active or retired and I'm part of their community, but it took a long time to get that trust. And I had to be very careful that I never misrepresented them or myself in any way that, you know, I was affiliated more than a volunteer.

Tayson: Mhm. Yeah. Yeah, that's that's really interesting. Um So did you ever think that you would be able to raise like I like did you ever think you'd raise much money and and I or did you raise much money like.

Paul: I I raised a lot of money and in fact the the one that I raised the most for, I never took a step. Um we were going to do Africa and I had sold my business in South Africa. I had been there 30 times back and forth. And we decided we were going to walk across South Africa uh north of the Zimbabwe River all the way across the country. And I went to my big sponsors. Um Duncan Donuts has been a big sponsor forever. But anyway, all these sponsors and I said, this is the last walk. Let's write big checks. Let's really do something good. We came up with a number. It was about a million bucks that they collectively agreed to. And every time we had a uh conference call, it would be another. Hold up because of COVID and because of the regions that we had to walk through. So, each region politically had another requirement. Some wanted security, some wanted this, and the danger angle was something was tough to like how are we going to protect me because, you know, United States is one thing, Europe's a one thing, but in Africa that you know, you're you're really out there on your own.

Paul: Not to mention, you know, black mamba snake and wild animals and food and you know, it was it was a logistics size of the spiders out there. It was a logistics nightmare. So, they finally had this one conference call with me and where everybody's sitting there, they're on the call already, and I come on and they're all the different companies are represented and they all. Got this sad face on. And I'm like, oh, here we go again. And And I'm usually very positive. This is another bad news story. And they one of them starts laughing and I'm like, all right, I give, what's going on? And we spent a lot of time working together, and they went, we got some good news for you. I said, what's that? And you don't have to take a step. We've all agreed, we're just going to write the checks and send them. Now, the reason we want the companies to write the checks is because it they get a relationship with the Navy SEAL Foundation. And now the Navy SEAL Foundation thanks them and starts getting cuz I can't keep doing these, you know, for the next 10 years, and I don't want me to get. The the praise and glory. I want them to do it.

Paul: I want them to get the thank yous. So, all of a sudden they would get a new sponsor, you know, writing them a big check. Like, where did this come from? And then they get that relationship.

Tayson: Right.

Paul: So, that was a good walk that I didn't have to take a step. And secretly I was happy cuz the first time.

Tayson: Oh, go ahead.

Paul: The first time I went over there to really check it out, one of the seals met me and he said "Um we're on a a ranch." And within an hour, he came back with a black mamba snake in the back of the truck. He cut the head off. And I was looking at the snake and he said "No, no, no, don't get near it. It can still kill you within an hour from now." So I'm just like "And I want to walk across the country? Like I am a big man. I don't want to be anywhere near these things, right?".

Tayson: That's crazy. Did you Did you grow up outdoors or or spend much time outside?

Paul: I mean, we were military family, so we moved a lot. And I did Scouts and I I did a lot of Appalachian Trail walking. I mean, I was always interested in that. Yeah. I would go off by myself for weeks at a time, you know, even 15 years old and do it. And I you know, I was used to water moccasins and rattlesnakes, you know, those kind of things. As long as you stay away from them in most cases, they're not going to bother you. But when you get a black mamba, they're aggressive. They're They get up on the bottom 18 inches of their body and strike at you. I mean, they love to come at you. Mhm. When I heard these stories, I'm like "Nah, I don't know. This is I was having nightmares. Getting ready." So when they told me I didn't have to do it, I was trying to act real cool, but I was like "Yes, I don't want to do this walk.".

Tayson: Yeah. Well, I've got a lot of experience with rattlesnakes, but water moccasins are like I've got this This is the way that I look at life, right? Is that whatever you don't have experience in, whatever unknowns you have, are where you have the your fears, right?

Paul: Yep. Yep. Yep.

Tayson: And so water moccasins look pretty wild, man. Like are are they are they not Are do you Are you more worried, I guess, having experience with both, are you more worried about a rattlesnake or a water moccasin?

Paul: Um more of a water moccasin, but I don't typically get really near them. Like I'm not in bayous. I don't get in in black waters and in a lot of water places, and not normally. I mean, I'm not traipsing through water. Um.

Tayson: If someone's headed out If someone's headed out on the Appalachian Trail, do they have anything to be worried about?

Paul: Um you have to be cautious. I mean, to say to people that no, you have nothing to worry about, that's you know, nature's totally unpredictable, as you know. I mean, I would be more worried about weather than I would wild animals, but and and I've met a lot of people that go out there and have no idea about hypothermia or hydration. None. You know, and I do a lot of talks on hydration. I mean, I passed out 28 times from dehydration going across the southern route.

Tayson: Holy Okay. All right, we got to get into It's time It's time to get into that that So, your very first hike or walk, was it the the uh you know, from Virginia to California, 3,000 mile?

Paul: No. The very first walk was from Dublin, Ireland to Rome. And that was with a uh college. So, there's a there's a college up in um New York state called Pierce, and they do Franklin Pierce. And they do a walk every They did a walk every year from like '69 on as a class curriculum. And they would do this walk where 25 students would just walk, and they would get like 10 months' worth of school for that walk. And kids went to the school just for that. And I figured out a way to get to go on that, and we did that walk, and it was amazing. I mean, to learn what the kids learned in 100 days of that walk was more than they learned in 4 years of college.

Tayson: Explain. Explain, right? Cuz we're so we're so programmed now, right? To just go to the curricula, you know, you just you just follow this curriculum path, right? But you're saying this, so what Explain that.

Paul: So so here getting there's no um there's no running water, there's no refrigeration. So we have a a truck that everybody's gear's in and that truck goes to the next potential spot during the day. Three people would come off the walk for 24 hours and their job would be go negotiate some farm where we can put our big circus tent. No sides, no bottom, just a tent. Set it up, go find food to feed 25 people without refrigeration. Make lunch, dinner and breakfast for those 25 kids. Now you've got to feed them, they've got to eat 4 to 5,000 calories a day, right?

Tayson: Yeah.

Paul: And you've got a you've got a x amount of budget to work with. You've got to negotiate with people in different languages. You've got to figure it out and there's no there's no backup. So the first thing that happens, the kids some of them may be a little spoiled, a little bit pampered. They get out there and they realize I didn't prepare well. Um you know, I didn't walk enough. You know, I only walked 3 4 miles a couple times and I got blisters. Well, deal with it. We're going to pop them and we're going to sew them and you're going to keep going because there's no there's no way to get off.

Tayson: Right.

Paul: And just watching how they made the food better and better and better. Like we get near a fountain, everybody carried a little bit of shampoo, wash your hair, dip in and dip out. You figured out where to go to bathroom, but they learned things, they learned empathy and compassion for each other. Because when you're that close, for that long, and and you're facing that many different scenarios, you're going to you're going to change and and I wanted to go on this walk every year, but it eventually they broke it down because of I think liability. But Europe's the right place for it because they're more custom to people and that got me um thinking about this Camino Santiago which I'm going to do again the second time. And that's a place where your company I'm. Going to walk around and hand out stickers because there's 300,000 people a year do that walk now.

Tayson: Oh my.

Paul: And they've been doing it for a thousand years.

Tayson: That pilgrimage.

Paul: Yeah. It is and most of the people that do it are later in their lives. They have the money and they're constantly looking for gear. I mean that's all we talk about. It's like cuz you're carrying everything on your back.

Tayson: So they're they're like legitimately doing this. Like it's not So I get So it sounds like people are doing this later in life and they're actually building up for it. It's not something like they're doing when they're 18 per se or and they just start like.

Paul: There's a wide group. About 80 countries are usually represented and each town is set up for pilgrims. So it starts in France There's many Caminos but the one that I do is called the French route. It starts in France. Quickly it goes into Spain and goes across the northern part of Spain to Santiago.

Tayson: Mhm.

Paul: And it's just 500 miles so it's not earth-shattering. I did it in 30 days the first time. I'm going to take my time a little bit more this time. But it's uh It's It's more fun for me because you know every night you don't have to camp. You don't have to you know there's a uh uh um It's It's like a hostel but it's only for the pilgrims and they're set up in every town and the meals are cheap but the seeing how people handle mountains and weather changes and climates and gear it it and the food is phenomenal. I mean the best wine, the best food you've ever had for nothing basically. I'm sorry. I'm getting you I'm getting the side track here.

Tayson: No, no, we food is is a part of why of all of this. I mean it really is. We love talking about food. That Yeah, that sounds really amazing. And and it sounds kind of low stress in some ways because you've got these stops and it's really just get yourself to the trail. I mean so then probably your priorities are you know, what apparel are you taking cuz you're not really are you taking like a sleeping bag or a pad or anything like that or is.

Paul: So, I'm going to take your quilt um just a a top quilt because every once in a while it gets a little bit colder. One of the biggest problems people have is they bring too much gear. So, in the first few days you see gear on the side of the fence. You can pick stuff up and almost outfit just from the gear cuz people bring like five pair of pants. You need one pair of pants, you know, two pair of underwear. That's it. I mean you wash out every night and you know, but they don't get it. Like they bring three pair of shoes. Why are you bringing three pair of shoes, you know, you that's just weight you're carrying.

Tayson: Buy one when you need it, yeah.

Paul: My weight for my pack with your pack that I bought, I bought the 40 oz one, I'll be under 9 lbs total with the pack. Not counting water, you know, but I'm only carrying a liter of water. So, so that's not bad. I can do that all day long, you know, it's not like humping 40 lbs somewhere.

Tayson: Are you like the example out there meaning like are are most of the people out there nowhere near like an ultra light backpacker status of of Yeah, there's there's.

Paul: They got like a whole To see some of the stuff they're carrying you go, "Oh my goodness, why are you carrying that?" Like, you know, I've heard women complain like from Australia and I'll walk over and pick their bag up and like, "All right, let's talk. You don't need a hair dryer. You don't need this makeup. You don't need this stuff, you know.".

Tayson: You're one of us now, right? You just you don't need that.

Paul: But the difference between that and then doing the United States was dramatic because the United States, you don't know where you're staying every night. So every night you're thinking, how do I find a spot and hide this cart and me for the night? So in the beginning I had a tent and I said at home, I said I can't pitch a tent. So then I got a bivy sack.

Tayson: You're talking in American now.

Paul: Yeah, yeah. And a And a camouflage cover for the bag. I got real good at hiding, you know, brush my teeth and duck in and get out before 5:00 so that people didn't cuz you're vagrant. You know, it's you just can't pitch a tent wherever you want. So the dynamic between having a place to stay where you're welcome and you can have a glass of wine to hide behind a dumpster is a big difference.

Tayson: So okay, so I want to go backwards in the timeline and then get back to the sea started. So you did the Ireland to Rome hike or walk after you were retired in 2014, is that correct? Okay. And then you did the Camino de Santiago.

Paul: Yep.

Tayson: So what year did you set out on this walk across America?

Paul: Uh that was 2015.

Tayson: Okay. So that's pretty quick. You just started hiking all over as soon as you retired,.

Paul: Yeah, I did. And I put in more miles almost on every one of them in training than I did in the actual walk. And even now like by the time I leave for Spain in September 1st, I'll have probably 2,500 miles this year of walking.

Tayson: Yeah.

Paul: But I would rather be over prepared and be to the point where like I've dropped since September 1st I've dropped 27 lb getting ready. And I'm in the gym 6 days a week. I mean I get serious. My nutrition is perfect. Not close, perfect. And I'll do that for an entire year because I just know what happens when I don't prepare enough. It It gets in my head. You know, I start thinking about like, "Did I Am I hydrated enough? Did I eat the right way for the year?" And it I've learned now I'm getting very old, but I've learned that I'm the type of person I can't have donuts tomorrow or Sunday. And then Monday get back on program. I have to make a commitment for an entire year that I am not going. To have white bread. I'm not going to have sugar. I'm not going to have soda. I'm not going to have alcohol. And that's the way I can keep that pattern. Other people can do it. I can't.

Tayson: Yeah, I I've I've realized this just about myself and that's that if I don't have a big goal, if I don't have something sitting there that is big enough that it scares me a little bit, I won't I won't change, right? And so, last year or yeah, really last year, um in preparations for an ultra marathon, the the only ultra marathon I've ever run, you know, it scared me enough that it absolutely changed my behavior. But there's other times when it's like, "Okay, I'm just going to drop like 2 lb this month. Easy peasy, you know, something like that." And I won't lose it. So, then the next month like, "All right, I got to I got to lose three now on this accelerator rate." And then it won't do it. Then I got to. Lose four now. But But if I'm like, "No, I'm just going to go all in and lose it as fast as I can and then maintain." Like I can do that. So, I I think I can really relate to that.

Tayson: Um in fact, I I want to circle back to to just this challenge that we have going on called the 100-mile challenge because I think it's it's something that you're the the principles in there are something that you're applying inherently that I've applied inherently and that that really I think help people um change their behavior and go and do something that they wouldn't otherwise do. But So, when you when you talk about um this training, how are how are you training? How are you getting ready for for a walk like this? You said. Your nutrition's perfect. What is perfect?

Paul: Yeah. So, let let me start this. I get up at 4:30 every day. And my wife, who walks a little bit with me, she's had her hip replaced twice. So, we do 5 mi in the morning slow, just communicate with her. And then I'll leave her after breakfast and I'll walk another nine to the gym or some combination. I have a number of routes to keep it from getting boring. Then I'll get in the gym and I'll do strength training. Because as I'm losing weight, I don't want to lose muscle. Even though I don't have a lot, I don't want to strong, all of that. I'll do a little bit of treadmill work on big inclines cuz I live in Florida and it's hard for me to train. So, I went down to Ecuador in. December. I'm going to Colorado a few times to get some altitude training cuz that's kicks your butt if you're not used to it. That's That That hurts a lot of people. Um from a nutritional standpoint, I count everything. Well, I keep a ledger of everything that I eat and then at the end of each night, I deduct what my caloric burn was for the day from biking, swimming, all the things that I do.

Paul: And I pretty much train all day long. And then once I get that number, I look at my goals and I go, "Okay, you know, I need another 10 lb by September." And I'll I'll end that content and then I have my blood tests and so, I really go all out and make sure that I'm on track. And I put. A lot of micro goals that I miss. Like some goals I miss. I mean, I had a goal to lose another 2 lb by Friday. I'm not going to make it. But that's okay. You know, it wasn't it I don't That doesn't crush me. It just says maybe it was a little too hard. I did everything right.

Tayson: Yeah. So, you're calorie counting, but you might be taking it even a step farther to where you're tracking macros?

Paul: I do all the macros and then the other thing I do is I intermittent fast. I'm just doing 16 16 8. I don't do the 24. I don't do skipping days. But it it gives me a chance to to get my body to rest a little bit. The one thing I don't do enough of is rest. And that I know I need to do more rest, but it's hard because I'm.

Tayson: That's what's so hard about cutting calories, too, right? You're cutting calories and training. And so that sometimes is a combination for for issues, right? Or for injury, I guess I guess it's the same.

Paul: Feel it. Like every once in a while I'll be totally bumped and I'll say to my wife, you know, instead of me walking back the 6 miles the way I usually come home, come pick me up and I'm just going to rest this afternoon. Then I find myself in the pool swimming laps. You know, at the condo going.

Tayson: Some food in you and you're.

Paul: I'm trying to get some food in me. Yeah, like I can do more and it's this over preparation that comes from being around these guys and seeing how they prepare for everything. And I motivate myself.

Tayson: Who are these guys?

Paul: Yeah, the Navy SEAL guys. When I'm around them and I see how hard they work in real world situations. Like they train with live fire. They train exactly like what they're going to do. I've kind of adapted that to I want to like if it's pouring out, I want to go out and walk. Like I don't want to say, well, I'll walk in a couple hours when the rain leaves. I want to get out and get wet because I know when I get on the Camino or my next big walk, that's going to happen.

Tayson: Right.

Paul: And that three initials are killing me. That PCT is in my mind and I'm already telling my wife, uh, next year I I think I'm going to have to do it. I just think I'm going to have to do it.

Tayson: Yeah, it's there's worse things you could do with your time, right? But.

Paul: Yeah, well, definitely.

Tayson: That's that's really interesting just about the the calorie counting and intermittent fasting and stuff. Um I really don't have any experience with the fasting, but this year I've been fasting basically from Sunday night to Monday night cuz it helps me get that week started if if I happen to overeat on the weekend, which is probably a better chance that I do than I won't or that that it's going to happen than I'm not. And then I've been calorie counting and it's just wild how much that that plays in and helps me at least to be able to really see what I'm doing. I can sync up my watch to port in calories into I use the MyFitnessPal app.

Paul: Yep. Yep.

Tayson: And I can Garmin can integrate into that, pull in your activity and and it makes it really convenient, but is there any other tricks or tips that you have? Um.

Paul: No, but you you have to be careful, too, because you're in a position like I'm watching your career. I'm watching how the company's going and you're you're going like this and that adds to your stress and then you're got a small kids, too, right?

Tayson: Mhm.

Paul: Yeah, you got a family. So, those those things that's what crushed me. I mean, I'd been to 100 countries traveling when I was working.

Tayson: Wow.

Paul: And I was constantly going and what ends up happening is you get out of balance, you know, and it's hard to keep everything balanced. I'm retired now. It's my wife and I and I train, you know, a certain way, but I don't have to do the job in the you know, the future and the and the travel and the shows and all the stuff that you have to go through. One of the tricks one of the tricks that I use is um I I put myself in a position when I get tempted. So, my wife's birthday was January 15th. And we took a bunch of people out for a nice dinner. And it came time for dessert. Everybody gets dessert and I'm sitting there looking at everyone had dessert in front of me except me. And one of the things I say to myself a lot is I put myself in this place for the families of our fallen heroes to help them with education, bereavement, and why. So, when I think about the why, that piece of lemon meringue pie with ice cream isn't that important. If I just think about I'm not getting lemon meringue pie, it starts to get in your head.

Paul: So, if I put the reason why I train so hard, like I know from today to my birthday how many days it is because I put a big goal on my birthday. So, every morning when I when that alarm goes off at 4:30, I don't get up and feel sorry for myself. I get up and go, "The reason I'm doing this is because of this family that. I met and this family that I met." So, whenever there's a funeral of a SEAL that I don't even know them, I will go to the funeral and go to the family and do whatever I can. And that I've seen that reward from those families. I've seen what it does when you help pay off a mortgage or you finish their education or you pay bills that they can't afford, whatever it is. And that kind of helps me get through that momentary feeling sorry for myself or, you know, why can't I just have a bowl of chips and and a beer and watch this football game. And the reason is because of where I'm going. And so, that helps me deal with the ups and downs.

Tayson: Yeah. Yeah, I think there's so much there's so much to unpack right there. You know, finding your So, there's this quote I heard years ago when I I I mean, over a decade ago that was um when you understand when you understand the why, you can endure any what, right? So, you obviously know your why. Your why is to help these Navy SEAL families and you're extremely dedicated to that, which allows you to do things that that everyone else is going to around you is going to say, "Paul, you are crazy. Who gets up at 4:30? Who does this? Who does this? Like you're just crazy. In your mind you're saying, "I'm totally sane." But you've you've got this why and it's so powerful. And so, I think figuring out your why is so important. To me, I have multiple whys. Like you there's nothing that says you can't have multiple whys, right? So, for me you alluded to that I I have two little kids. I want to be able to to keep up with them anywhere they want to go, whatever hobbies they have, I want to be able to chase them and help them and and be there with them, right? I also have a lot of hobbies myself.

Tayson: I want to do that my whole life, right? Like if I can't do those things, then I'm going to I know that I'm going to tank um in many many ways, right? Um but but understanding that why is huge. But the another thing that I find and and maybe comment on this, too, is I find that if I make a. Big commitment, I don't have to make 7,000 small commitments every day and be faced with like like if you already know I'm not eating lemon meringue pie, I'm not even eating any dessert till next Monday, then when that shows up, it's easy cuz you've already made that decision, right? And so to me that that makes it easier.

Paul: I'll tell you a quick story. Years ago, I was in sales and I got a job with a company out in California and it just so happened that I got a big sale right before the annual sales meeting. I lucked into it. Bring my wife out, they treat us like gold and we're in this sales meeting and they're honoring the number one guy who'd been the number one guy for 15 years. And my wife's looking at me and she's there, "Don't you do it. Don't you do it." I'd only been with the company 30 days.

Tayson: Uh-oh.

Paul: At the end, I stood up, tapped my took my glass, tapped my fork. My wife said, "Oh my god. Oh my god. Oh my god." And I said, I remember the guy's name is Tom Ross. I said, "Tom, I want to congratulate you." No one even knew who I was. I said, "But this is the last year you'll be number one." I said as as I stand here, I will be number one next year and I will be number one every year that I'm there. My wife could have died.

Tayson: Oh.

Paul: I was number one guy for 7 years and I left the company after 7 years. But I had to put a big stake in the ground.

Tayson: Yeah.

Paul: So I do the same thing with these walks. I tell people what I'm doing. I tell people so I'm accountable, so people can see me. If they see me eating french fries, s- somebody's going to come up to me and go, "I thought you were or I thought you weren't going to have alcohol. You swore off alcohol for a year." Or, you know, you weren't going to eat dessert or you're not going to have white bread or sugar. You're never going to see that. You're never going to see me have a soda pop between now and next September. It's not going to happen. Now, my reward is when I go on that Camino, I'm going to have a glass of wine every night. I'm going to have a chocolate croissant every morning. And when I. Get home, I'll say, "Okay, now it's the PCT in 9 months and let's go." You know, yeah. One of the things that SEALs have taught me too and they say this, you can do seven times more than you think you can do. And when you really break that down and you think how many times do we quit at stuff? Like we just we stop. You know, like, "Oh, that's too hard." No, it isn't.

Paul: It's It's because we mentally we're not hard. You know, to be really hard physically is not that hard. It really isn't. I know it sounds like But it's not. It's It's capturing why you're doing it and we talked about that and understanding that it's mental, not physical all the time.

Tayson: Right. And I think that's it's that mental side is a muscle that can absolutely be grown, right? Like these Navy SEALs for those of you that haven't maybe read this book, but and you may may not be a fan, I don't know, but like David Goggins' book, right? Like he talks a lot about that kind of stuff. But it's it's absolutely this this this muscle that can be grown and strengthened and and you know, I like to think that I've I've taken steps in that direction, but there are guys out there that are so they're so capable, but but it's and we want to say oh, it's it's you know, their biology or it's this or it's that, but their their dedication and their and their their mental fortitude and strength is just off the. Charts and that's led them to you know, be at their prime, you know, physically or to to or to stay in it, right? And there's there's just there's so much to that. But I'm going to switch gears here and I want to I'm going to circle back to some of this nutrition cuz I want to know what nutrition was like on this big 3,000 miles, right? So but you get you get started on this.

Tayson: So what what month do you take off to start this?

Paul: So I leave April 1st out of Virginia Beach at Little Creek Seal Base and I'm going to walk to San Diego. And I decide to take Route 60, which is what they call a dead road. Route 60 goes all the way to the edge of Arizona. But it's a two-lane in a lot of places and because a lot of highways have been built, it's what they call a dead road. And someone gave me advice, oh, that's a good road. That's a runner that was supported. It said, oh, I'm going to go on Route 60. So I choose Route 60. Yeah. The problem is there's a lot of places where there's nothing. There's no food. So I would go into gas stations and go, give me all of that. And they go, ah, it's been in. There a couple days. I don't care. I mean, I just needed calories. And what I know about nutrition today, I would have to be supported to do that again because I understand nutrition so much more now. But then I was just give me food. I don't care what it is. Just give me something to eat.

Tayson: So you take off, you know, to just to set the backstory here, you take off. You've got a some kind of a cart. Describe the cart really quick cuz it's got Is it like a like a running babies cart type of thing?

Paul: It's a double wide baby stroller. That I broke the axle on, that I broke the wheels cuz they're not made to do 3,000 miles. They're made to go around the block, buddy. But this thing was like 1,900 bucks. They gave it to me. I lettered it up. I mean, I'll send you a picture of it. It came out really nice. But it's it's wide. So, it's 30 something inches wide. So, when you're walking against the guardrail against traffic, your number one thing is not getting killed by a texter.

Tayson: Yeah.

Paul: Like people say, "Do you listen to a radio?" Hell no. I looked straight at the drivers. And more than once I jumped the guardrail and left Thule sitting there. I named it. I hated that thing. I left it sitting there cuz I thought it's going to get killed before me.

Tayson: You're right. Right. So, you take off. You've got how much gear in this thing? What do you What do you What's in the cart?

Paul: So, in the beginning I had um cookware, obviously. I had a tent, way too big of a tent, sleeping bag, ground cloth, my clothes. I brought um an axe. I mean, stuff that I brought you just don't need. Like and as I would go, I would give it away, throw it away, send it You know, and people would give me stuff and I would go, "Thank you." Out. Because when you're going up those hills not staying. Yeah. You're going up those hills in West Virginia. I mean, it got to the point where I would step, slide my foot under the wheel, and breathe because it gets so hard to push that much weight up a hill.

Tayson: Yeah.

Paul: And what I didn't realize is when I started I my original plan was to be done on Veterans Day. And I got so tired of being out there that I said, "You know what? I'm going to change the schedule and I'm going to accelerate it. I'm going to be done by September 1st, 5 months." So, I had to make a lot of changes to make that happen. In the beginning, you're like this. The first few days I get in a hail storm and it's hailing and I'm holding what they call a diplomat umbrella, which is made with tungsten steel inside that every diplomat carries. So, if they're ever in an emergency, if they hit you with that, they'll break your ribs. This company gave me one, so I'm hunkered down with this hail coming and. A sheriff pulls up and he rolls down the window. He says, "What the hell are you doing?" Like me, I'm I'm walking for the families of fallen Navy SEALs. He goes, "Get in." I'm like, "I can't get in the car. I signed an edict that I would not take a ride." And he's there, "All right, there's a firehouse a mile down the road. I'll meet you there." I said, "Well, I can't.

Paul: I'm not a fireman." He said, "Just go there." Well, the firemen put me up and they would call ahead to the next firehouse and the next firehouse. So, for a while, I had firehouses, paid and volunteer, putting me up. But, I found out you never sleep in a paid firehouse because they're up all night long. They're getting called all night long. The. Volunteers are having meals for me. Like, they're bringing everybody around. They want to talk. I wasn't getting any sleep.

Tayson: Yeah.

Paul: And then they would call and say, "We've got a firehouse 12 miles up that can't wait to see you." I need to go further than that.

Tayson: Yeah.

Paul: So, I got to the point where I said, "You know what? No more. Now, I'm going to start pushing." And I up my mileage once I hit the Mississippi to 30, 40, 45 miles a day.

Tayson: Wow.

Paul: And I started sleeping outside to really accelerate this. But, where I ran into trouble is when I hit Arizona. Arizona, New Mexico are brutal in August. And I did it because I didn't want to walk in Colorado in the Rockies cuz I figured the mountains. Car up in there. But, the heat, I mean, I was at 120, 125 degrees some days. And I would pass out and everybody comes running over. They see They see the sign. They come running over and they want to call an ambulance. I'm like, "No, no, no. I'll be all right." Well, my wife got so scared. She said, like hearing about it, she goes, "I want you to wear a bicycle helmet." I said, "I'm not walking with a bicycle helmet across the country." But I obviously had concussions and. I mean, I wasn't getting in bad shape. So, it took a a real toll on me and I realized now, you can't wait until you're thirsty. I mean, you got to be getting the fruit and you got to be getting fiber and you got to be drinking long before you ever get to that point of dehydration.

Tayson: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. So, man, that that So, you start off What is your goal initially? Like, how many miles a day were you hoping to do?

Paul: So, in the beginning I was trying to do 15 because there was so much hills. Like, once you get out of Virginia Beach and you start getting into those into the the eastern side, it gets steep and they're logging roads, a lot of the on Route 60. So, you're going straight up and people say, "Oh, it's nothing like the Rockies." But it doesn't matter when you're pushing that much gear. Yeah. And it was cold. It was It was And it never ends. And everybody would tell you, "Oh, you're out of them now." You're out of them if you're driving, but when you're walking, even the smallest hill eats you up. Like when I hit Oklahoma, I don't know how many troopers would stop me and say, "Yeah, you You know, you're out of the hills. Now." And I'd look and I'd go, "You can't see that hill there?" You know, but in a car, you don't feel it.

Tayson: You don't even notice, yeah. So, so 15 miles a day is what you're starting off. Obviously, you scale that um a whole lot of different times, you know, all the way up to 45 miles. Do you have anyone following you or watching out for you or you just 100% solo out there?

Paul: Yeah, you're solo. I had um I had a sat phone that a few seals kept an eye on it. Um I was posting my longitude and my coordinates, but I stopped doing that because people started showing up right where I was, and I didn't want that. So, I would post it a couple days later.

Tayson: Yeah.

Paul: Because, you know, there's there's a lot of nuts out there, and a lot of people think you're carrying a lot of cash for some reason. You know, I People gave me some donations, and every time I'd see a post office, I had pre-done envelopes that I would send it. Yeah. But, you never know when someone's going to do something stupid. So, and I didn't have any.

Tayson: I mean, so you're using a great story. Okay.

Paul: There's a great story. I had a a trooper from West Virginia stop me. And people would call constantly saying, "There's a guy out there with a baby stroller, and there's kids in it.".

Tayson: Oh.

Paul: So, a cop would pull up, and you know, as soon as I see the cop, I put my hands up, I'd show my ID, you know. And he'd say, "What do you got in the cart?" It's a dirty laundry, you know, open it up and show him. There's rain coat, you know, nothing in there. An hour later, another cop would stop me, and I go, "Can't you guys call to the next group and just tell them I'm coming, you know? I got to keep Every day I got stopped by somebody.".

Tayson: Right.

Paul: But, one of the troopers, I was heading into West Virginia, and he's there, "Do you have a weapon?" I said, "Well, I got a pocket knife, and I've got this umbrella." And he goes, "Do you have a gun?" I said, "No, I'm from New Jersey." At that time, I was from New Jersey, and you can't even spell gun in New Jersey. He opens his trunk, he goes, "Do you want one?" And I went, "That's rich. I've never had a state trooper offer me a gun." He says there, "I just don't I can't imagine you going into these towns you're going to be going into without a weapon.".

Tayson: Yeah.

Paul: So, he leaves. About 6 hours later, he pulls up, and he gets out, and he gives me a box of flares. I kid you not, these flares were huge. And he goes, "Take the flares." And I'm like, "I don't want these." He goes, "No, no, no, take them." He goes, "I just it it's bothered me all day." Well, I took them. I end up keeping two, and I end up throwing them away because I What am I going to do with these big long flares? But in his mind, he knew where I was heading, and he knew that, you know, there's crack addicts and drug I mean, there's going to be problems.

Tayson: Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I had a I mean, funny funny enough, one of the only places I've lived um back east was in Virginia Beach. I went there when I was I was 18, graduated high school, and I went out there to sell alarm systems door to door. And uh I remember this one neighborhood I got dropped off in. Um I'd have been in Richmond, that area or something, but um yeah, first house I knock on asked me if I have a weapon, and I'm like, "No, I just I have a clipboard, you know what I mean?" And they're like, "Well, do you want one?" Or they said, "Where are you headed?" I said, "Oh, just down the street." They said, "Oh, well, do you want one?" You know, I was like, uh I don't. Think so, but it definitely made me check. And then sure enough, I walked through that area, it was it was kind of sketchy, and just put my head down and and got through it, but then got to the other side. Like one of the first houses I knock over there is a police officer's house. And he buys an alarm system like right off.

Tayson: He's like, "Come in here, where do I sign?" He's like, "I've already got an alarm system. If you say yours is any better, I will buy it." You know, I was like, "Holy cow." And he's like I was like, "Isn't there a police station just right around the corner?" He says, "Yeah, they break in and just take the weapons out, so it's not really helpful, but but it it yeah, anyways.".

Paul: I was just thinking the whole time about I don't think I would do the United States again unless unless the companies put up a huge amount of money, but I I would probably do it escorted to do it again. And really because of the people driving. And that was the And at any one time, there's 40 people going back and forth across the United States.

Tayson: Yeah.

Paul: And all the people that have done it are busting my stones because I don't do it again. I'm like, "No, once was enough.".

Tayson: Yeah.

Paul: You know, unless they give me a huge amount of money, or a sponsor says like do Canada and I'll give you, you know, 2 million to your charity, I would do it, but I don't think I'd do it again.

Tayson: Yeah. Yeah, it's it's it's scary. I mean, just just driving around and watching people's eyes always looking down at phones, you know, all that kind of stuff. Um when I lived in Malaysia, I rode bikes everywhere and looking back now, I would I'm just so glad I made it through that cuz just drunk drivers and all sort like it just wasn't monitored as well and um just it is. It's it when you when they're all in this 5,000 lb metal vehicle to to bump into things and you got nothing but a a two-liter carton for you. So, I'm going to go back. Uh I wanted to ask about this. This is a little bit on topic here if just did you get treated differently? Like like I know like you're you're you're explaining what you're. Doing, but did you get treated differently in the sense of people thinking that you're just like a vagabond, just, you know, maybe homeless? That's right. And you're you're scooting through places and people are just really, you know, maybe.

Paul: No, no, they they um I did a couple things. I shaved every day only because um I just felt like and nothing against beards. I've said you guys have great.

Tayson: Sitting here like, "What are you going to say, Paul? What are you going to say?".

Paul: My kid my kid brother my son has beautiful beard. I bought him a place in Ecuador. He's got a gorgeous beard. Um I I decided to shave every day because I thought that would help a little bit. And then in the front, I had Navy SEAL Foundation Walk Across America. That helped me most times. Like VFWs, American Legions, if they saw me or heard about me, they were trying to drag me in to feed me and take care of me. Um Indian casinos were the nicest, friendliest people I've ever met in my life. They would put me in a suite. They would give me steak. They They you know, wash my clothes. They'd send someone to my room and knock on the door and say, "Give me all your clothes. Here's a robe, and we'll. Wash everything for you." And I was like, "Wow, you know, the kindness of some people is just amazing." Like, in West Virginia, I'll never forget, I heard I'm in a holler, you know, like the the valleys, and I hear this guy yell, "Can you wait a second?" I don't even know where he's saying it from. And here he comes running down with a little kid, and he's got a sandwich in a baggie and a cola.

Paul: Now, this is like what you would get at the at the cheapest supermarket. It doesn't say Coke, it says cola, right?

Tayson: Yeah.

Paul: And I take the sandwich. Now, I never ate what they gave me because I can't afford in most cases to get sick. On the other side, it was one piece of bologna, and the other side I could see mold. But that's all they had.

Tayson: Yeah.

Paul: Right? They were the most generous people I've ever met. The worst were California. They were the worst. I couldn't Oh, California was horrible. But the poorest people were the nicest people. I mean, anything they had, they'd give you. You know, and I had to learn to say yes, thank you, and please because I'm the type I don't like people giving me things. I want to give to you.

Tayson: Right.

Paul: And it's very hard for me. You know, I've been very successful. I've made a lot of money, but you learn real quick that you've got to be on the other side, and you got to be gracious and say thank you and just shut up.

Tayson: Yeah, last Christmas, not this this year, but the one before, I was in Walmart, and I had, you know, a hundred and something dollars in my shopping cart, and I go to to pay for it, and she says, "Oh, no, no, no." And I said, "What do you mean?" And she said, "That lady right over there, she just she just paid for your stuff." And I'm And I looked I took a look, and I I don't know how to say this, but like Yeah, I know. They were not someone who in my eyes should have been paying for someone else just off of pure appearance, right? Which is super wrong to say, but it crushed me. I was like, "No, I can't I can't let you do this. I'm I'm I'm very successful, you know. What I mean? Like it's and like I should be the one doing this type of thing." And and then here they are, they did this and say, "No, we'd love to do this. We do this at Christmas." And there was nothing I could do, right? You make a big fuss and it takes away from the experience that they were doing and so on and so forth.

Tayson: And but it was it was just one of those moments where you're like, "That was just so it was personal and it was it meant a lot to me." And and then it just, you know, it really motivated me to be like, "Okay, I need to do more of this, right?" And but I I know what you mean, like just sitting there and you're just like, "No, you. Don't understand. Like I I can pay for the, you know, like and you should do this. And like let me go take you shopping now, you know, or something, you know?" But it was tough. But but it's so interesting.

Paul: I'd be in a diner or a restaurant and I'd order a lot of food. Like once I found a place, I would order a lot of food. And I'd go to pay and they go, "Your bill was paid." By who? Gone. I said, "Well, let me get the tip." "He's tipped." You know, those are the people that they don't want you to know anything. They just said, "Pick everything up he eats." And I don't know, you know, I'm just ordering, you know, three desserts and three meals and just every cuz it was good food. You you learn to just say thank you and move on.

Tayson: Yeah. Yeah, there's there's just absolutely incredible people out there and and um you know, you get into the day-to-day and sometimes you feel like um humanity is going one direction, but there's there's just still so many amazing people out there and and um I love.

Paul: A lot of trail A lot of trail angels out there. They really are.

Tayson: Yeah. All right, I've got to I've got to pivot here for a second. We're we've burned through some of our time here, Paul, but I've got to hear more about the passing out, hydration, and all of this. So, you you I mean, at this point you've hiked all through a lot of states. You're getting into these really hot sections. So, take us through like you're passing out. What How are you getting out of these scenarios where you're passing out? I mean, if you're getting to a situation where you're passing out, now you've got to what? Self-recover and I mean, what does that look like?

Paul: So, there was a guy that contacted me that saw my walk and he says, "Hey, I'm a federal agent. I'd like to have you to our home for dinner." And I'm like, "Cool, right?" He's coming up the other side of the highway and I'm coming up and he sees me. I don't know he's coming that way. He sees me go just flat over. He throws his lights on, comes across the road. Well, turns out he's a wildlife agent, like a a forest guy. But, he the way he said it, I thought he was CIA or something. He gets out, he wants to call an ambulance and I'm like coming to and I'm like, "I can't go in an ambulance." I said, "Here's what I need. I need Pedialyte or, you know, something to electrolytes and. I would take anything. Like if a bum was sitting on the side of the road and had a Gatorade and slobbered in it, I was downing it." Because you just can't Once you're dehydrated and you get low, you can't catch back up.

Tayson: No.

Paul: And because I kept pushing because I got this goal in my mind, on September 1st I was finishing. And people that knew me said, "Paul, it's impossible." And that's all the motivation I needed. Like when someone says to me, "You can't do it by that date." Then it becomes, you know, so instead of stopping at 6:00, I'd go to 10:00. And then I started walking at night because it was cooler. You know, I could get up and and sleep try to sleep in the day in a culvert, anything. And then push, but I walked too much and I pushed my body too hard. And it got to the point where I was seeing the white spots and I was like if I leaned over I was out. Like I could not tie my shoes. I. Laid on my back and tied my shoes cuz if I leaned over I was out. And when I got home my doctor said, you know,.

Tayson: What?

Paul: You could die doing this. You know, you you you got to you got to understand your motivation but you and one of the SEALs told me, he said, Paul, look, think about this. We're a team. You don't have a team out there. There's no one to watch your back. So you can't put yourself in danger. You have a wife. I've been married almost 50 years. You have a wife at home.

Tayson: Yeah.

Paul: And I'm like, okay, you know, this is this is making sense. You know, but I still made it by the first. I still walked up on that day and finished. But it's that's the mentality I have that I've got to check. I got to keep that in check.

Tayson: What do you So what would you do once you'd pass out or cuz you said yourself like you can't really catch up. So I mean do you just just lay there until it's You lay there and hydrate all night long and then get up and try again?

Paul: No, no. In fact, at one point I was I remember I was walking and the mayor came out to meet me and he said, you know, we're going to have a little bit of something for you and I'm okay, thank you. Little town. And he went back into town and like 3 hours later they come back out. I'm like, what the hell's going This guy was only a mile away.

Tayson: You're on the ground.

Paul: So he comes up and he's he called he tapped the fire squad and they came out and I said, look guys, just get me up. I got it and it took me hours to go that last mile. I'd be going to the curb and sit. And then I'd walk like a 100 ft and sit. And it just got to the point where I'm like, I have got to rest. I got to take a complete day to rest. And you start to feel when it's coming and I would like get in the shade but I remember there's one woman she was sitting on a big um hill where the gas station was and the little kid was sitting in the van looking out. The mother was doing something. And he This little kid watched me fall. Over. And he said to his mom, "Hey, cuz that guy just fell over." And the mom said, "What are you talking about?" Look down there and she drives the van down and she's beeping the horn and I'm like, "It's okay. I'll be all right. Just He gave me CPR with one arm. I'm alive. It's I don't ever want to like even now like when I'm training, I don't let myself get there.

Paul: Like I I get up in the morning and I have two complete bottles of water soon as I tap water soon as I get up.

Tayson: Yeah.

Paul: You know, to get it started cuz I know what I'm going to do today. You know, here it's warm and you know, it's going to be really hot this summer here. And I'm going to train all summer long. I got I know what to do now.

Tayson: Yeah, that's just pure insanity and I don't even know what to say about that. But I do want to hear what you've changed and how you hydrate now. How do you What do you look at hydration-wise, electrolyte-wise?

Paul: Things that I have a Thermos Here it is here. I have a Thermos that Apple makes actually Apple bought the company and this thing actually lights up um and tells me when I don't drink. It goes on my phone, it goes on my watch and I try to drink 80 oz of fluid before 4:00. Okay. Which is a lot of fluid, all right? And if I'm not drinking like if I take it to the gym and it starts lighting up, people go, "Your Thermos is lighting up." And they actually remind me.

Tayson: Call on your phone over there, sir.

Paul: Yeah, it's reminding me that I got to keep drinking. The other thing I do is I have a lot of fruit um because there's a lot of liquid in fruit and the challenge for me is I get bored with the water so I'll take some uh lemonade tablets and throw them in there just give it a little bit of taste.

Tayson: Totally.

Paul: But no sugar, you know, like kind of so you taste it but it's different and it's just a conscious thing to keep drinking all day long.

Tayson: But that's at home, but what about out in the real world when you're doing efforts like this?

Paul: Yeah, so I I plant water a lot of times, too. So, what I'll do is I'll take a water jug and I'll stick a water jug on my route.

Tayson: Okay.

Paul: So that when I get there I have water and I know um pretty consistent, I know where I'm going to go, I know where there's water. And I'll always fill up like no matter what, I'm putting water back in into the uh containers I have. So, if I'm biking or I'm walking, I'm I've always got water on me. I wear a little waistband that's got water, I carry a water bottles. I have to cuz it's the only you know, without water you die.

Tayson: Yeah. Yeah, and so I was just listening to a podcast with some some experts in in um endurance, you know, efforts like this and you know, they're talking about how much salt do you need, you know, electrolytes do you need and really the the study that that this um professional had put together was really, you know, focused almost 100% on hydration, salt always comes second to hydration, but do you put any effort or energy into hydration?

Paul: So, I.

Tayson: Or excuse me, salt salt or electrolytes.

Paul: Yeah. I I started with those, you know, I forgot what they call them, the goo and all that stuff and I used to use that.

Tayson: Yeah.

Paul: But it upset me. Like I I found everything got screwed up. So, I don't salt my food a lot. Um in my smoothies that I make and I make a smoothie with like 30 ingredients, I'll put salt in there, a little bit of salt in there that helps and I'll have cashews that have salt on them. But I don't like salt things the way I probably should. You know, for years we were told salt's bad for us. It's bad for you, it's bad for you, it's bad for you. But it's it's like anything. It's I'm not doing what normal people my age do. You know, most people don't walk 15 miles and go to the gym and swim and bike in in a day. That's that's not normal. So, I have to regulate a little. Bit differently for what I what I do. You know, if I was sitting home and not doing anything all day and drank that much water, I I would explode.

Tayson: Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting. So, you're you're mainly just in intaking for your own personal Right. Like you just you're familiar enough with your body that that's how you're kind of judging it.

Paul: Yeah. Um and as I get older, like that's the other problem I have. Like I want to do this until I'm 100 and I want to live to 125, but the reality is my body's not going to allow that. So, I've got to be smart in what I do. Like when I was halfway through this walk, I was in trouble. And I called the manufacturers and I said, you know, this might not I might not be able to finish this. Every one of them said, "We'll pay it off. Don't worry about it. Like we're going to write that check." And I'm like, now I got to finish. Now now I got to finish. It's I just can't let them do that cuz I'll never get them to sponsor again. You know, they'll never put the. Money up.

Tayson: Yeah. Yeah, that's so interesting. So, you So, you finish you I mean, you make it, right? Do you make it all the way across?

Paul: I make it all the way across. Um the finish was funny because the pictures like there's a lot of press there. I didn't want anybody there. And they the word gets out. I had a person that was helping me from North Carolina like call ahead to different things. And the word got out so that they the Loews Hotel at Coronado had all the guests come out to meet me. All the people that worked there come out to meet me. So, it was a big reception. And I'll never forget there there was a group of guys going through buds that they brought across and they're all sandy and they're standing there and you know, wet and cold. And each guy comes up and says something to me, you know, thank me and moves on. And this. One guy comes up and he starts to say something and I'm there, "Hey, look, I want to thank you. And he goes, "Sir, I would come." And he looks both ways, he goes, "Talk to Mickey Mouse to get out of that freezing cold water." I started laughing and the DIs like laughing at him going, "Let's go. Let's move it on, you know.".

Tayson: Back in the water.

Paul: Then that night these guys said to me like one of the commanders said, "Hey, we meet at a SEAL bar in Coronado. And why don't you come down tonight? We'll buy you a beer." And I said, "Well, where is it?" And they go, "You know, down the road." I said, "Well, how am I going to get there?" And he goes, "Effing walk." So he leaves. So it's 7 miles to get to this bar and I walk in. I'm not a drinker. And they're drinking Jägermeister. I don't even know what Jägermeister was.

Tayson: Oh.

Paul: I woke up in the Loews Hotel in my room. All my stuff's laid out and I had no idea how I got there. The guy at the door, the doorman, he was showing me this video. He goes, "You got to see this." They rolled me up in a carpet from the rest from the bar and put me in the back of the truck and took me in and put me on a luggage cart and took me to my room. And they said, "Give me the key." And they gave it to him and put me in my room. Took me 2 years to find out which guys did that, but I found out who did it. But it was great.

Tayson: Checked that you were alive in the in the rolled up carpet. It sounds pretty.

Paul: I looked like a fish. I looked like I was like this. I just looked like a fish. So anytime we go any place like if we go to a funeral or anything afterwards like if they go drinking I go, "I'll drive, guys. Like I'm I just I'm not going to drink for a year. I'll drive. I'll keep an eye on you." I know you guys thought you took care of me, but I don't know if I can handle I've taken up so much of your time and I so appreciate you making the opportunity to talk to me and and helping with this. It It's It means so much to me and to the community.

Tayson: No, I I I mean likewise. I I loved this conversation. It was it was I mean there's a lot here. It was it was really fun to get to know you hear these stories. It's amazing what you're doing. Um I think it's just incredibly inspiring to see you um out here pushing your limits like this, but also you're doing it cuz you love it. I mean obviously like you're probably in some of the best physical condition you've ever been in. I I and it's really inspiring to see all of that and and again just the the causes is um is absolutely phenomenal. So, we appreciate what you do here and um appreciate you as a customer apparently. I learned I didn't know you were a customer until I got on the call today actually. So,.

Paul: I'm a big customer. My wife said that was the worst sale she's ever seen because every day I bought something. I'm like, "Honey, I don't need this." But look LOOK WHAT THEY GOT. LOOK at this price. The only thing I still got to buy is I want to get your rain jacket cuz I've been reading about that thing and it just seems like that's the.

Tayson: We'll we'll get one out to you.

Paul: The.

Tayson: We'll get one out to you. Yeah, we'll let you try it and see see what you think of it. So,.

Paul: All right. Well, buddy, listen. Thank you. I'd love to meet you someday, too. I I'm going to get out that way and and I'd love to find a way to get out and meet you in personally.

Tayson: Yeah. Yeah, no, I I'd love that as well. I mean we've whether you're coming through Cedar or whether we can meet it at a um an event someday. Hopefully one year we'll get out to I Where are you you're in Florida, right?

Paul: Yeah, we're in in Delray Beach, Florida, down southern Florida by Miami.

Tayson: Hopefully we'll get out there and and do some some like trail days or some of those things, too, to get a little closer to you as well. So,.

Paul: I'd love that. Thank you so much for the time. I I really appreciate it.

Tayson: Yeah, thanks so much, Paul. All right, everybody. Hope you loved that podcast. I really enjoyed the conversation there. Um I'm excited to see how the rest of his trips go, but um what an awesome awesome guy and just a a wonderful conversation. If you have not yet rated or reviewed the podcast, please do so right now. Stop what you're doing and go rate it. I'm going to read um our most recent podcast review from Nate Jukes. This podcast exclamation point. I discovered this podcast about a week ago and have loved the interviews with through hikers, FKT setters, etc. But as a has been collegiate runner now with five kids under eight years old, this was the episode I needed. Um was the one where Tayson interviewed the guys that hiked 100 miles and summited King's. Peak with his 9-year-old um that would be Brandon Gilliam. Um I don't remember which episode that is, but you can go back and find that. It was one of my favorite episodes of all times, too. So inspiring/educational/validating to hear about how to ease kids into hiking and instill them in a love for the outdoors.

Tayson: We will definitely be setting some goals to get out more with my kids instead of just dreaming of doing my own big pushes and I'm dreaming of the day when my kids are old enough to do big trips with me. Thank you so much, Tayson and Brandon and Tinsley for sharing your experiences. Nate, really appreciate the review. And for those of you that have not yet left a review, please go do so now. If you have any questions, there. Are two ways that you can give us questions or feedback too. You can email us at liveultralightpodcast@gmail.com. That'll get forwarded into a work email. Or you can leave a comment on our YouTube channel, which is growing. We're um seeing a lot more reviews over on YouTube. So if you want to drop comments over there, we can respond to those over on that side. So thanks for joining us today. That was an awesome interview with Paul. Really appreciated his time today. And make sure you guys are subscribed so that we can see you guys on the next episode.