Tayson: Hey everybody welcome back to the Live Ultralight podcast today we are going to be talking about a recent trip we took over to Germany and Austria I guess these guys even made it a little bit farther into the Netherlands so uh basically a trip to Europe we're going to be talking about that as well as the trade show that we went to so some things regarding maybe the state of the outdoor industry um some benefits and some things that we enjoyed about this International traveling trip and a few other things along the way maybe some key pieces of gear so that's interesting to you stay tuned uh to be quite honest it's going to be more like us talking a little bit around the water cooler and just kind of uh relax in here for.
Tayson: A minute we this is uh maybe not as well planned out as some of our other podcasts so uh bear with us as we just chat amongst ourselves but if you are new to the podcast it's Outdoor Vitals that's our our main business here and this podcast is really just to inspire you guys to get outside more comfortably and more confidently um so if that's something you're interested in hopefully we'll we'll uh pay tribute to that throughout this podcast so recently we uh took a trip over to Europe to a trend a big trade over there called ISPO um also known as like ISPO outdoor I guess or I don't know there's a there's a few different names ISPO ISPO is like the main name of the trade show and so we went there to.
Tayson: You know work with suppliers meet with um key business relationships we have as well as showcase some of our products for the state of Utah which which we'll talk about um along with that though we thought hey we're in Europe what other things can we look at we've been looking at you know expanding cells into Europe a little bit more so there are some things along those lines we could do but also just enjoy our our time there so um it's after the trade show is over my wife and I at least went down to Austria and spent some time just traveling and enjoying the countryside down down there in the Austrian out so I guess with that let's go ahead and just dive into what this trip really was and um I guess start.
Tayson: With with ISPO um it's always interesting to go to a massive trade show like this this trade show is really the biggest outdoor um trade show in the world uh for those of you that are familiar with something like that called The Outdoor Retailer here in the United States this absolutely dwarfs the size of outdoor retailer in fact um I'd probably say that ISPO they they say is about half as big as it used to be before the pandemic but it was probably still significantly larger than Outdoor Retailer at its biggest Peak just a massive trade show and we're being really interesting to return to Munich Germany and see this trade show as it maybe gets back into full stride again but it's always interesting I guess to just go walk around see what businesses. Are doing learn a little bit more about the global scale of of the outdoors and what what everyone's doing in regards to that um so yeah I don't know what'd you guys think of the trade show.
Brigham: Um yeah it was it was interesting it I'd agree it's always interesting to kind of to aside from kind of the business that we conduct on our own with our partners and suppliers and stuff like that it's always interesting to um just kind of be surrounded by I guess the the industry in general the outdoor industry and um just interesting to see the direction that brands are going and um yeah just I don't know kind of get a little bit of a pulse on the giant like the giant massive industry that it is.
Tayson: Yeah I mean you mentioned a few things and to give perspective here this trade show occupied 10 massive trade show Halls um like I'm talking like little Conference Center type things like massive Conference Center Halls there's 10 of them a part of this trade show but Brigham you've kind of been mentioning just recently like the effect or the size of the outdoor industry and I remember the numbers you were saying like in the U.S I guess that of how much revenue or whatever is attributed to to.
Brigham: The outdoors yeah in the U.S um in 2021 it contributed to 850 billion dollars um to the U.S economy so that's yeah it's it's massive and so I I don't know you know what the European market numbers are versus you know another continent but you know suffice it to say it's uh you know it's a it's a huge industry there's just there's a lot and there's a lot of um you know it's kind of proof that there's there I would say luckily continues to be a demand for people to be active and involved in activities that get them outside and like the the breadth or the range of activity is is really big it's far bigger than you know what we typically talk about whether that's like backpacking or even like the main the main. Outdoor recreation Sports of like backpacking climbing snow skiing and you know it's that is a huge range of activities but it's yeah I think it's a it's a good sign for Humanity that there are you know a lot of there's a huge demand for outdoor recreation.
Tayson: Yeah well Tyler do you have any thoughts.
Tyler: On top of your head I think size perspective wise if you've been to a trade show in the Las Vegas Convention Center the Munich Convention Center is probably twice the size of that so um and that's that's it's a huge experience it's organized better um the the Munich trade show Center was organized very well it was really cool to see all the different brands the that were there and see what people were doing so it was great to be involved and uh and it was good validation for us because um for the other brands that I talked to um we were we were every bit as healthy as any other brand that that we talked to there which was great to hear so.
Tayson: Yeah I think um I actually questioned for a long time why this trade show was even held in Germany right because technically from a spending perspective the US market is bigger um than any other country right at least individual country uh by a pretty considerable amount um so I was always like why did they hold it Germany and honestly after going there I'm like the hell did Germany because that's the only Convention Center big enough in the world to hold this thing uh at least that's got to play some part into why they would hold it there but um yeah but I mean I think I think to talk to to what you're talking about Tyler that was a big part of the conversations we had at least at the trade show was was just.
Tayson: Coming back to some of the reasons why we do things throughout orders are how we do things here Outdoor Vitals specifically when it comes to direct to Consumer um in our business model there so we were already planning to go to Munich for um you know design and key partner relationship type things but Tyler got to tag along on this particular event due to the fact that the state of Utah asked us to come and represent the City Utah in their booth and you know their Booth is to bring attention to the state of Utah but also you know to potentially expand business and exports out of the state of Utah right there's that's kind of their reasoning behind it so what that looks like is they had a very nice space and we occupied.
Tayson: You know like a four or I don't know four four square foot of wall where we displayed a few of our products so Tyler you got to kind of go stand around that Booth a little bit have conversations with people and then also do some other partner work um you know when you're when you were leaving the booth but we spent a lot of time amongst ourselves because we you know we're next to a bunch of businesses in that booth that are from Utah and all of those businesses are there to sell retail accounts so wholesale accounts to get into stores in Germany or Europe or anywhere over there where they can sell product uh through those retail outlets and so their their question to us was always like we have people come in they'd. Look at our product they'd be super interested in our product be like hey can we retell this and the answer is no and uh you know then then they'd walk.
Tyler: Away or whatever yeah that's why we were.
Tayson: Here why are you even here yeah which is kind of a good point because it ended up not being incredibly beneficial for for that side of things I mean obviously our big goal of something like that would be to get some PR and attention and stuff like that but um it's funny because like some of these other businesses would just straight up ask us you know do you guys not like money like why why are you saying no to cells um like why would you not do this and it really comes back to a lot of our core values but it was it was a very interesting perspective I guess to to go into that.
Tyler: Um well yeah it made you question like well are we doing the right thing like is it really the best thing for us to not sell wholesale to some of these big Distributors and uh it was it was a good um like thought exercise to force us to Think Through why our core values are what they are and to to really like be able to explain that in assist synced Manner and what it comes down to is we don't sell wholesale because it's better for the customer if we don't really like that's that's the main thing the fact that we have a direct connection with our customer means that our feedback cycle is a quarter the amount of time of what a brand is where the feedback is coming into the store and then you're.
Tyler: Lucky if it makes it from the store to the brand right so that's a big part of it another big part of it is is our performance not price side of our model which allows us to venture into very expensive materials and processes for our products and then let the price land where it lands because we're not trying to hit a certain price range for a certain category on some shelf of a distributor right where we have full control over um what we design how the prices turn out and and we try to price as transparently and straightforward as possible by keeping that wholesale markup out of our price so like it's it's better for the customer in a lot of different ways if we don't sell wholesale but it's tempting to try and change. The bottle when you see other people all around you Landing big accounts and and feeling like oh dang you know like we're getting left behind in some ways um but that's just not it's not something that's necessary for our brand and it's not something that would really benefit our customer really so.
Tayson: Yeah I think I think that is the best way to put it right now as a company we have a single stakeholder which is our customers we don't have investors telling us what to do we don't have any other third parties you know influencing our decisions which means our decisions are based off of what's best for the customer um so it is it is kind of interesting to go into some of these scenarios and some of these Brands you know started about the same time we were and were you know you're talking a little bit of numbers and stuff at least these ones that are from the state of Utah like I was very familiar with them and you can scale sales incredibly fast with wholesale accounts like 10 times faster than we've grown could.
Tayson: Be very like it could grow extremely extremely fast but like Tyler says is that the best long-term play and really when you peel back the layers it's not a lot of times you know there's we can get into the nuances of business and how sometimes scaling too fast has massive costs down the road uh but I don't think we need to go there it's more so for us we're able to develop and keep our Focus just on the best thing for our customers.
Brigham: Um and and pricing isn't a big factor we don't have to design to hit the price points we don't have to design and hit these other things in fact I'm going to take us on a sidebar here for just a second uh but I just had a conversation with someone who's writing a an article about us and they kind of were wanting to take something we were doing and pit us against other brands and say like these guys are like a great value right great value and I was like wait a second like like you're not trying to call us like budget are you like you know I kind of played that out a little bit with them because I said because you know what we do is not about budget but but often our.
Brigham: Price is so much less than a retail brand that it gets portrayed that way and a good example that happened at ISPO we were talking with the Fabric Mill we're talking about our specific fabric that we develop uh that we developed with them and now utilize in our shadow light backpack and we're talking about like how much fabric they're producing minimum order quantities just different things like that and literally they're like oh this fabric is used by brand a who everyone in the world knows as one of the most premium expensive brands in the world they're using this same exact fabric as as we are now um which was really interesting right because that same product the shadow light often can get even lumped into um lower price point comparisons for that product right we've.
Brigham: Seen it happen before but really has nothing to do with the quality uh or the expense of that product has everything to do with our direct to Consumer business model and what that offers the customer in the long term so it was very interesting it's very interesting to go there and see these massive Brands and then hear about people right around us you know making wholesale deals and and sales and scaling their business at a faster rate per se than we are and it makes you just have to rethink and recommit to our core values I would say yeah some of the like recurring thoughts that I have are related to you know wholesaling and retailing a lot of it comes down to me like to authenticity and um like kind of the trickle-down effect.
Brigham: Of what the end user actually gets in their hands and so to give a little bit of context on this trade show same thing with outdoor retailer in the U.S these trade shows exist for brands or or companies let's just say a downhill ski company they exist for brand XYZ to sell on a large scale to retailers so think like Shields or of the world like that is the objective of these trade shows is for the retailers the people selling these products um to make purchases from the original Brands let's say brand XYZ so you know uh when it comes down to the end product that ends up in the user's hand if you think about the chain of events that occurs to get that product in the user's hand these retailers come to these.
Brigham: Trade shows to make Mass purchases where every penny matters right and so the buyers of these these these retailer companies they are scrutinizing every tenth of a cent because they're talking hundreds of thousands of units um and so that's that's an area of influence on the end product that ends up in the user's hand now how does that benefit the user to have somebody buying the product prior to them buying it and nickel and diming based on something so these these buyers come to these trade shows they speak with a a product brand and they're it's like used car sales here we go they're trying to negotiate price down and on the the retail brand side they want to land a huge account they want to make that you know eight figure sale and why.
Brigham: Do they want that well most of them are owned by a higher entity a conglomerate some kind of umbrella group some of them aren't but either way like there's another area of influence that's affecting this decision that you know in my mind why should the consumer have to deal with the results of these negotiatings and decisions these basically number you know punching that's all it is um and so to me it really devalues the authenticity and the soul of a brand that on the surface tells you their story or their reason for existence and says we want to you know this this and this well then if that's really the case um I think there's a more straight line and authentic way to get the best product in the customer's hands without the product being.
Brigham: Affected by all you know half dozen hands involved between the creation of the product and the end use of the product um you know so there's just so much influence that that these massive purchases have on the end product and you know it's it's such a status quo thing that um there's still great products that actually end up in the cut in the consumer's hands but it's like the thing that I always think about is like but what could it be like what what could it end up being had you know the buyer not pushed a brand to you know save 37 cents on a pair of shoes um what could those shoes end up being for the customer had that buyer not done that and that or the or the investor group not put. Pressure to land an eight-figure sale um you know or to to land a certain margin on that eight figure sale which again all that ever comes down to is um affecting the the cost that goes into the actual product and generally speaking anytime you're cutting costs um you're making compromises to the product.
Tayson: And I think a good interesting point about that too is like go back to that pair of shoes trying to cut 37 cents out of the cost of a pair of shoes well pair of shoes is only you know as good as its weakest link so like where are you pulling the 37 cents out of a pair of shoes that it won't compromise anything right it's like it's going to compromise something which then could become a weakest point which then you know just spirals into the pair of shoes only going 200 miles instead of 400 miles or or something along those lines it really has a lot to do in my mind with with something like that one one thing that also comes top of mind to me is and this really comes full circle.
Tayson: Is there's certain technologies that we've been able to use just this year that retail brands have have not been able to use or have looked over or passed over due to pricing structures and pricing models one of which which we've talked publicly about is the Tushar rain jacket the opportunity to print 3D on the inside of that jacket to use multiple membranes and feel those things drove the cost of that jacket up quite a bit other retail brands have been presented with that same information and had passed on that opportunity because it didn't meet pricing models and pricing structures where they could get it on onto storeroom shelves uh but the reality was it's amazing technology we were we were then able to like like they were shutting it down before they even really got.
Tayson: To testing with it whereas we were able to take that say Hey price isn't the issue performance is what we focus on take it out of the field test the crap out of it learn that it really is incredibly impressive it allows us to use a heavier face Fabric and increase durability and all these different things and then put it into the market and that's that's just again an opportunity for To Us by direct to Consumer now the cool wraparound part of this too was this again event was on a world stage and it was really really cool for us at least uh we had no idea this is was going to be there but when we got to the trade show again one of our main Partners which we've talked about publicly is Torre.
Tayson: Which is a Japanese company that develops um fabrics and does a handful of other things for us Torre had a lot of advertising out for waterproof breathable membranes um in other words stuff that goes into your rain jacket it was really cool to then go when we went to their Booth to have conversations with them to see that they were displaying the Tushar rain jacket as their most technical you know rain piece that they wanted to show to the world on this world stage so that was a really really cool pat on the back I felt like for us um as Outdoor Vitals's team to just see that that that's getting seen on a world stage that we've been able to code develop that with them to push that Innovation forward to test that to.
Tayson: Prove that and bring it to our customers this last year which is really really cool especially it's it's cool that it's just getting seen and appreciated on that world stage at ISPO but again if if we had to sell through retail I mean that jacket would be a three or four hundred dollar jacket and who is going to buy a three or four hundred dollar rain jacket it's it's a valid question when you have that kind of a pricing model on the back end so all in all that was a lot of our conversations that we had at I suppose was around some of those uh you know wholesale versus direct to Consumer and just re-solidifying the pros and the cons of each of those and uh you know we we love direct to Consumer. We love the path we're on the trajectory we're on we love what allows us to develop and bring to the table Yeah and part of part of.
Tyler: Our involvement with World Trade Center Utah was um a grant that we've gotten from them that helps for International Business in in any senses and so part of our reason for wanting to go check out the European market was just to see how we could serve European customers better and uh so I spent a lot of time thinking that through looking at things talking to other brands me and Brigham shop some outdoor stores in Munich later in the week and that was really interesting as well and um you know I think most companies use wholesale channels to expand into new countries you know like that's like when I was telling them oh hey me and Brigham are gonna go tour this giant Warehouse it has all these amazing capabilities and and everything and they're like.
Tyler: Well why don't you just sell to Globetrotter which is kind of like the REI of of uh Europe and then you don't have to deal with any of that because they'll warehouse at all it's like oh well um that's one way of doing it you know but um we wanted to go see what else was available and and just do our research because we feel like um we want to we want to control every aspect of the customer experience from the time that we designed the product to the time that it gets in your hands we want to be in control of all of that and make sure that it works well for everyone and and so we're we're kind of swimming Upstream um in all of these things that we're doing but uh it's.
Tyler: All for the greater good and it's all also because we all believe that um that that model of sale in wholesale and using Distributors and having your stuff in stores there's definitely like value to the convenience of being able to go and drive to a store and pick something up the same day but we in the long run we believe that most brands are going to shift towards doing their own thing anyways and we believe it's better for the customer no matter what so we're we're really playing the long game uh we're doing the hard easy hopefully yes is the easy hard approach to all this I think it's really telling that Nike isn't taking any new retailers you know like like they're not looking for accounts they're actually pulling product out of stores because. They want to control it more and they have that app that they're doing more sales through than anything and so and you know so I think in general everything is Shifting that way and hopefully in 10 years it'll look like we're way ahead of everyone else but for now we're having to play the long game yeah so so a.
Tayson: Couple other points uh to bring it back to maybe different tangents here that I wanted to talk about was I want to talk about like sustainability but I also just wanted to talk about like just new technologies that are coming up and just and what so I don't know if we never really talked about this but it is it was pretty interesting to go to Europe and just see how much more conscious they are about everything they're doing like I don't think I used any plastic forks for instance the entire trip are spoons or anything they had wooden uh disposable stuff they had you know recycling was way more prevalent but really inside the trade show as well like it's it's I mean there's a lot of brands that are super focused on it right.
Tayson: Now and we've always said as as our brand is is I've always been on the conversation of you know we want to develop something that will last longer have more durability have a longer lifespan be more used instead of something you buy use once throw away um that is the single best way for us to be more green or sustainable is to to develop for for that kind of a situation uh but man like I think just in the time that I've been you know since I've started Outdoor Vitals started attending Outdoor Retailer and you know done that for I don't know 10 years or whatever um that conversation has just gotten more and more and more large and powerful and more and more brands are adhering to it um I don't know do you. Guys have any thoughts on on any of that was that a surprise or did you fully expect um that element of the show we just know we never talk about it so I figured it'd be worth like bringing up it's like we never talk about especially on a podcast yeah it.
Brigham: Seems about on par with what I would have expected I wasn't I wasn't too surprised by it.
Tyler: Yeah it's I wasn't too surprised mostly because outdoor retailer in the States has become so political in the last few years and I and a lot of that is around um you know all of the the sustainability kind of discussion and so I kind of expected that uh but it was impressive to me to be in Munich and just see how like how much more all of like sustainability uh making things compact building straight upward like they're just forced to do a lot more of that than we are in the States because they have less room and less resources you know and so so um and then to us trying to talk to people at the show or in the stores or to the locals like trying to figure out where to backpack you know. Like just they just have a lot less opportunities and a lot less space and resources than we do in the states that I think we take for granted you know and and that was good to see and a good reminder.
Tayson: Um yeah I I just I guess I just found it interesting that the conversation is just as strong if not stronger in Europe as it is in the states um and I think it's only going to get stronger and stronger and um yeah it's something that that I think we're paying attention to and and like say our philosophy has always been to to design the right gear more longevity in a piece of gear outweighs too super green you know widgets you know one one longevity of one shirt is gonna outweigh the the emissions or whatever of two green shirts per se but um but I think it's still something that's going to become a reality for us in fact there's I was even on a call just the other day where there's some like in.
Tayson: In Europe at least there's some political aspects that they're going to start to force some of this stuff to happen in the long term that you have to meet certain thresholds of uh let's just call it sustainability even though it's way more specific than that for specific things um just kind of like you hear the conversations around battery cars and you know certain countries or states trying to ban uh you know engines and in in 2030 or 2040 or 2050 or whatever it is I think the same thing is going to kind of happen in textile and for whatever reason the outdoor Community seems to be the pioneers of all of that and I think the rest of the world will then be required as well to follow in that sustainability side of production so. Yeah luckily.
Brigham: Our production partners aren't behind you know like they're they're on par with what the standards for the industry are currently and they're they're continuing to innovate and like with with the vario jacket which all of us are wearing uh all black too come on when we uh copycats I should have zip mine all the way up and taken my best off so we look all exactly the same but no like uh when we first did the 3D effects insulation for the Ventus um they were telling us like hey we've got a recycled version of this coming it's going to be great and we're like okay cool we'll test it you know and and then sure enough a year later it's in the vario and it's performing amazing you know and so it's like it's really. Cool to have those opportunities um working with some of these amazing partners that we have and and being able to feel like um even though we're not um like Patagonia making documentaries about dams and things we're still trying to do our part to um to use the best materials um on in all aspects of it performance sustainability like trying to balance everything so yeah.
Tayson: All right I want to switch to I think probably the last topic relating to ISPO specifically which is there's a lot of really cool and new technology out there um in the insulations and the Fabrics in zipper poles I mean just all of it it was really really cool to see and I think I left ISPO just thinking the long lines of like man it's really cool that that you are listeners your customers and whatnot have continued to Believe in Us and empowered us to be in a position where we get to go and test so much stuff now and so really you know Brigham's calendar is pretty full our inboxes are full from from you know just different different you know insulation providers or different whatever it might be that you come back from.
Tayson: A show like that and just think man there is there's so much cool Innovation happening um you know one one of the companies email this probably the most recent and I've just totally forgotten about them I was like oh yeah they had a really cool technology and an installation and there's just a lot of really cool things happening that I'm I'm excited about um and it gives us a a laundry list of things to continue to develop and then test in the field and see what what sticks like what's what's fluff right like we get to kind of sort through that a little bit of like what's fluff and what's what's really proving to be driving results in the field for for comfort for performance and so on so forth but yeah it it uh. It honestly it.
Brigham: Honestly can get a bit overwhelming um I mean because there's there's so much out there so you know it it can get over well overwhelming to where there's so many options of different Technologies or materials to use you know and so you know the question arises well what what what what do we use and um you know I I definitely think it's it's very valuable to always you know have objectives and and have you know kind of performance parameters and things that we're trying to achieve like clearly identified because you know the reality is sometimes there's probably like five different ways to accomplish something and you know Finding I I think that's what I I enjoy about my job is like finding just finding the the right thing it doesn't mean that it's right for.
Brigham: Everybody but it's right for who it's designed for and that decision-making process I think is um it's important I mean it's important to me I think it you know it's important to the to our to the end user and because there are so many options out there and and there most of them are really fascinating and there's really good stuff out there and so you know it does create a bit of a challenge on our end of just like trying to take it all in absorb the information and then sift through in terms of like what you know what what are we trying to accomplish what's the what's the right way to go about doing this because another reality is one product is great for one person and it's horrible for another um and so. It's it's I don't know it's uh I'd say it's just a it's a positive challenge in my mind so.
Tayson: Yeah I think that honestly without being able to look at it from a perspective of a customer um could be impossible to do your job and to design gear right because like if you just Chase every shiny object out there then you then you develop everything and get nowhere per se um so but it is it is just challenging nonetheless there's just there's a lot of cool stuff happening um and everyone loves to oversell what their specific Innovation can do and so um I think that's one area that I am just grateful for which is our ability to put things into the field our ability to spend time in r d and we're just in a really good spot I would say as a company too to just be able to um take our time.
Tayson: Be very selective we've we've got a phenomenal base of products right now and um which means that we've got a bar to meet and exceed every time we we consider any other choices um but yeah there's there's some interesting ones that'll be interesting to test uh over the next year and and again um it's interesting I guess to to just I think Tyler pulled some of this but you know as a team we hiked over I think 1300 miles last year um it'd be interesting to like really sit down and crunch that and see that doesn't include in my personal yeah that's like on the clock miles at Outdoor Vitals as a team we act 1300 miles let alone you know morning hikes morning rocks let alone personal trips let alone anything like that um.
Tayson: And so it's it's been really good for us I guess to to just be able to I don't know get out there and see what's marketing fluff what's not what actually moves the needle what doesn't and uh yeah there's just always interesting stuff to see I guess there and and I'm sure you'll see us testing you might be able to see some of us some of it getting tested over the next year and we'll see what uh actually moves the needle or not in your side tangent I.
Brigham: Mean it's related but I don't know it just came to mind is we were um talking to one of our suppliers our current suppliers and and they were kind of showing us some new uh installations um it was just you'll remember what I'm talking about when we start talking about the balanced insulation um because they showed us one insulation that was like had this really a little more of a unique Innovation about it but then it compromised other things and then they showed us like another one that was like unique in a different way but then it had these drawbacks to it that um you know and then in the end they said like well yeah what you're what you're actually using is is the is the most balanced uh in terms of performance and.
Brigham: All these other metrics of of like this specific insulation um it's it's just interesting because there's you know related to all the options of materials and testing things and always like you know feeling the grass is greener off this other material or you know shiny objects and oftentimes like it's the actual testing backed up by these conversations we have that that really helps like sort out some of these decisions for us like you know um fancy new technologies aren't always the best thing for our customer maybe somebody else but not ours yeah.
Tayson: There's more attendance I could go on here but maybe it's it's good to call it right there um so I guess just to sum that up we had a really good time at the show we learned a lot um it's fun to see just the state of the industry those that are attending it's fun to see you know where our core values kind of Stack Up and separate us from other companies and I think the biggest thing that's fun to see in my mind is just like I think I I kind of said some of these things to Brigham as we're walking around you say like man some of these companies are just so big and uh like just kind of the thought of like winter what what our future is going to look like.
Tayson: Are like are we going to grow to this level and and you know why why are we not growing just massive gobs amounts of some of these people and um pretty much said you know some of these companies are 30 40 plus years old right and and as good as I kind of think backwards on our company to me we really we did start in 2014 but in my mind in reality it was more like we started in 2018 with the birth of the loftech jacket and it was really from that inflection point that that we were able to get the right Partners on our team from there where they're able to start hiring the right staff and build the right team and so um we haven't been at this as long as um as.
Tayson: I sometimes feels from my perspective as the original you know founder and owner here um but it's it's real exciting to see where this could go uh as it just continues to move forward and and the team continues to grow and Partnerships continue to grow so okay so that was the first handful of days in Munich um I had a pretty good time hanging out in Munich it was really cool to be there there was Christmas markets going on so basically every evening we were we would kind of go out and walk around these Christmas markets where they they had you know their Christmas traditions such as drinking this hot wine called uh oh my gosh blue Vine um they had all sorts of Trinkets and handmade things Tyler bought uh some some pretty cool. I don't know what you'd call a handcrafted chocolate tools they.
Tyler: Were tools they were like um they didn't.
Tayson: Make it through security but no they.
Tyler: Made it they just hung me up every year they required a taste test they were like castings of the word weapons yeah they were chocolate castings of like actual old used hand tools and they made them look extremely real like they made them look like the same Rusty patina on the tools that you'd find out in Grandpa's barn and uh it looked real yeah they looked really real size like.
Tayson: What was going through security like with those like when they stopped you and you're like that's chocolate did you.
Tyler: Just like I mean the only time I really got hung up was when we were trying to re-enter the United States um and and like in the Denver Airport there was like three checkpoints that you had to go through TSA to get through the border control set stuff like you had to do it two times coming out of the terminal then you had to go get back in TSA line to get back into the airport for domestic and uh those were the ones where I got hung up and and our flights were like really close together so I was stressing being being stuck there but it was just funny because my pack was like um we all traveled with just the coda UL for our eight days me and Brigham were were essentially eight days.
Tyler: You guys were ten right there's I counted it as nine but I could be counting wrong um so we were all just have the one pack so my one pack was kind of heavy coming back because I had the chocolate and I had like some Christmas souvenirs that I'd gotten for my wife and daughters and then I had just all my clothes and some of the trade show stuff and uh so they'd like scan my bag they'd see all the tools in there and then there was something else um that was kind of like throwing it off I can't remember what it was oh it was like my my like tactical metal wallet and and then and then two I think I was getting flagged because I was traveling with Brigham.
Tayson: Yeah it looks like a terrorist.
Tyler: Apparently wasn't the American that that they were looking for when we were flying the Netherlands the other day and he he kept getting like extra screenings like with no with no luggage or anything they just look at him and say come over here and so um so I think that we were just kind of in for it we looked a little too too um Brigham looked a little too trained in in military you know like just his posture a stance you know I'm sure he just stood out like a sore thumb you know so well then one the one time coming like we were trying to I think is when we're trying to get out of Munich headed home um Brigham got this one extra screening that I just thought was really funny and so.
Tyler: I was like walking down the hall past him and I thought it was so funny that he got stopped again so I go to snap a picture of him to send it to Tayson because Jason and Jason and Brie were down in uh they're down in Innsbruck and we were in Munich and I was going to send it saying like oh here's Brigham getting screened again and and I take the picture and then the TSA people immediately see me taking the photo and they're like you can't take a photo here this is a secure area and the guy grabs my hand and he's like delete that photo right now so then I like show him that I'm deleting it and then I walk away and I'm like haha you forgot about the recently deleted album. Oh God you know.
Tayson: Like it was all it was silly yeah it was called like anti-terrorism Squad in for taking a picture yeah it was uh.
Tyler: There is a lot of funny things that we had with that but the tools made at home I haven't eaten them yet because I keep showing them to people because they think they're cool they're pretty dang cool I don't know if you should ever eat them I'm gonna eat them we ate a lot of.
Tayson: Chocolate over there and yeah that's what I was gonna say it's better than our son I so just to skip ahead a little bit we ate we ate chocolate like every night every night somehow we would finish the the last batch of chocolate that should have lasted us a week we'd be done with it so after the trade show we'd go and stop by this little Mart and pick up more but on the way home um there's a few people that have like requested us to bring home some chocolate in the family so we stopped by the same Mart actually when we got to Munich at the train station and basically I had done we'd done the whole trip with just Cody ul's but I had brought a drifter uh backpack which is like our.
Tayson: Little packable it just goes into its own little pocket but it's a 16 liter it's a 16 liter pack when it's out right um I had to keep that out of my backpack because it was so full of chocolate that I brought home uh to distribute amongst family members and friends so um man chocolate is definitely way better I think Hershey's must just be killing American chocolate or something um so we should all boycott them but yeah like just a regular bar of chocolate there tastes like super premium chocolate and it's like fairly good prices they had they had great flavors strawberry cheesecake like like legit delicious tasted like strawberry cheesecake chocolate well you were.
Tyler: Buying like those one pounder.
Tayson: Um they only made like certain flavors three bucks yeah or three Euros you know so yeah it was it was awesome so we walked around a lot of the Marts and stuff together in Munich and then um after we're done with the trade show three days the trade show me and Bree got on a train we went South down to Austria put it to a city called Innsbruck I would probably just describe Innsbruck a bit like a man like a like a mountain resort town a little bit except for it's it's like there's a lot of people live there I think there's 300 000 people but there's literally like trains and they can get on a cable car and go straight up a ski resort out of town into the the Alps so you're right.
Tayson: In the middle of the mountains um just a beautiful beautiful town and so me and Bree spent another three or so days there you know we again the night markets were just a whole lot of fun so we're basically back at the night markets eating and looking at Trinkets and all sorts of things um about every evening but then you know I Dro I went up to the top of of one of the ski resorts did a little bit of hiking around and took some photos and things up there um and then you know we also took a train that kind of went through the Alps and then circled back around and up to Munich on the way out so just got to do a lot of sightseeing um Brie while we were at the.
Tayson: Trade show she went and toured a bunch of castles and then when I was in Innsbruck we went toward uh one castle where the the owner of the castle turned it into a museum pretty early on so he had like this massive um you know collection of like armor you're like 250 armor pieces um like full suits of armor and all sorts of things so it was a lot of fun the the travel aspect turned out to be just a ton of fun um for me it felt like man I just kind of felt like it taste like it was just like this is really impressive it's really cool it's really cool to see how great the train system is over there and just to think like man we're just a train ride from Italy.
Tayson: Or Greece or France or you know any of these areas um definitely made me want to stay longer and to do more there so that's definitely on my list I guess to to get back over there um maybe next time you know try to get back over there more in the summer months and and get a little bit more hiking done or a little bit more touring but there is a summer ISPO I think that's probably the next time we'll be back is maybe it's maybe it's gonna be 2024 summer Expo unless something changes and we need to go next summer but um it was a good time I don't know I mean you guys these guys ended up going up to the Netherlands they toured a fulfillment center um and then you guys kind. Of kicked it around a little bit you went to I guess you guys ended up coming to Austria Tyler how did that conversation go how did Tyler get you to come tour uh was it you got a KTM right Brigham was sick.
Tyler: So I was just trying to get through the day Brigham was sick so I would just like I would just uh choose like the trains and do the navigation and then we just ended up oh my God pretty much it.
Brigham: Was rough yeah rough last couple days.
Tyler: For me we went we yeah we took a train from Munich over to Salzburg which is like straight east of Munich and uh it's a beautiful country it's it was really foggy so we didn't get to see much of the mountains there we saw a giant red stag which was like that made our day seeing that guy up on top of the hill from the Train and then we um I'm a huge fan of KTM and Husqvarna so I Drug Brigham all through the um KTM Museum that's right there by their by their Factory and Maddie golfin and uh yeah it was like we we probably had our best food of the entire trip at this tiny little like barbecue shack called Grill spits we took the wrong we got off at the wrong stop. On the off the train and then we were like oh crap we've gotta walk 25 minutes to get to the museum so we're like walking down the street and then we see this little barbecue place and it's like one in the afternoon we're like we need to have lunch here so we like sit down he starts to serve us and then we realize we're out of Euros.
Brigham: Yeah yes and they didn't pick a card so we ordered our water you have to order water like buy a bottle yeah yeah so then we're like well crap we're walking to an ATM then walking back to our Burgers so we did that and it turned out that the food was awesome it was a little family run like cabin thing with the little Grill in it and uh it was like we're just having a perfect little lunch out in the country um that was a stormy day what did you just just barbecued meat or like was there something that was a burger oh yeah mine was a chicken sandwich menu um what is your favorite rub they make their own rubs and they make their own Barbie like I realized I mean they were chopping.
Brigham: Up ingredients for like it took a long time so they they make their barbecue sauce and like the there were the tiny um what's that zester they basically zested onion and put it in the barbecue sauce so like I was realizing after a couple bites I'm like this is the onion that he was over there zesting over there and making the barbecue sauce for this this burgers that sounds delicious there was a lot of depth in that in the flavor of that the food we had in um in the Netherlands I liked too like they had a bunch of like very traditional European sandwiches you know where you don't have any bread on the top and there's no mayo or butter or anything it's just but like I liked that food too but I'm trying.
Brigham: To think of the best food I had on the trip uh one of the things I found interesting is that they you would buy a slice of pizza and then you would have them um do uh what is that like when they have the like pork or whatever just spinning all day like rotisserie the dinner I'm talking about the big thing of meat yeah like a spit the Souvlaki yeah so then they grind let's call it a Euro they grind that up and put it on top of your pizza it's gonna be like extra like quadruple the meat you typically have on a pizza so that was something I saw that multiple places down in Austria I think I saw Munich but didn't know what was happening essentially because I actually ate one slice of.
Brigham: Pizza because I'm eating it I see another guy order that and I'm like wondering I'm like why I'm at a pizza place with the with the spit sitting there turning on this is weird and then they got all all of it on their Pizza I'm like yes I need one of those now um that was interesting maybe not the best food but it was really good um I had a really good schnitzel I think when I was what did I I don't remember where which restaurant that was really that was the like.
Tyler: Chicken cordon bleu style one that we that we had at that place by our hotel um by mine in Brigham's Hotel it was.
Tayson: Yeah no it wasn't hot for a house it was that like the other place we went um I can't remember the name I took a picture of the front of it that was a good meal that was yeah that was really good I don't know I just felt like I had a ton of I just thinking food more than anything I just enjoyed all the different bratwurst yeah brought worse every day some at some point yeah yeah I mean it was it was good I wish I could think of just more um it's gonna bug me now but tons of tons of good food I feel like I probably got photos of food all over mine and my wife's phones just to have to remember that I feel like that's a big part of traveling.
Tayson: Honestly it's just experiencing the food and that that element of culture I guess but okay um there's probably more we could go on here but overall fantastic and fun trip I had a lot of fun I hope you guys had a lot of fun sounds like Brigham between the screenings and getting sick might not have ended on a high note but uh I I really enjoyed it it was it was one of my favorite trips especially work trips um but kind of wanted to end with just posing a question so going on an international trip like this um you know you guys were mainly doing business stuff but my bet is that your stuff would have translated into doing outdoor stuff as well so just want to hear maybe if you guys had any specific.
Tayson: Pieces of gear that um really shined in this type of an application um you know international travel eight days of travel um you know we're switching hotels and and stuff like that multiple times throughout this so um there's just all these different elements going on that kind of make different pieces of gear at times be the highlight and then obviously the same question goes if there's anything you would have maybe left behind on a trip like this so anyone care to uh to go first yeah I've.
Tyler: Got an easy one um I think what I'm wearing right now the vario and the Nova Pro vest is like a a phenomenal combo for travel because the vest is more compact it also allows the vario to breathe kind of the way that it was designed so like when we arrived in Munich it was 20 degrees it was like quite cold and we were you know all jet lagged and everything so the cold really cut deep and I was really comfy with the vario invest together all the days were like pretty stormy and wet and it was just it was very versatile to have both pieces and not feel like it was taking up much room in the pack and and be able to be comfy that honestly is not a bad situation because I. Took a.
Tayson: Vario and Anova Pro and it was Overkill to wear both of them at the same time and so I ended up packing one or the other depending on just which piece I wanted it wasn't like the worst case scenario but.
Tayson: Um it was like that you probably were utilizing your pieces much more than I was while I was carrying one of my pieces most of the time yeah.
Brigham: Yeah I would agree I all I brought was a a vario um and it was cool it was it was it was cold in that like it wasn't necessarily I mean it was definitely not colder than most of the time that we go winter backpacking but most of the time we go backpacking in the winter we're very active and basically physically working whereas this is like slowly walking in giant crowds down the street which is basically like almost inactivity so like if it's 28 to 32 degrees like that's pretty dang cold when you're pretty high can really generating any body heat and so um there were definitely a few times where I wanted more than just the vario I think the combo Tyler that you had was would have been spot on for me one.
Brigham: Thing I really appreciated was I did take my rain jacket but I never I never got it out and put it on the few times that it rained or snowed it was like pretty light and I it was really nice to just not even worry about it like with the vario just threw my hood on and I you know I was totally unaffected by any any precipitation that happened on that whole trip um so yeah I I definitely if I was doing it again I'd I don't have a vest but I would get one and take one with that with the vario combo.
Tayson: Okay it's a good that's a good highlight any other highlights um.
Tyler: Just in my pack my travel pack so with Coda UL I I took two packing cubes the standard OV Cube and then two dot bags I used one dot bag to take just like as a hand carry on the plane that had like charging cords uh charger headphones stuff like that that was pretty handy to have and then having the two Cube system worked really well I kind of just there's some stuff that I just throw on the bottom of the pack and then as the trip went on I would just start using one of the cubes for like just dirty clothes and then yeah I don't know the backpack just FYI uh we flew out of a very small airport in Utah using a a Regional Jet like a 48 passenger and both of.
Tyler: Our code ul's fit in the overhead like that's something I hear frequently is like oh I don't know if that's TSA approved for Regional Jail it definitely worked and then everything bigger like yeah we so multiple times over we've proven this over that the Cody well is is good for like really small Regional Jets all the way up to international flights so yeah I mean that jet is so small that your typical hard carry-on case like a rolling luggage they check every single rolling luggage on that they were paging the whole oh yeah the airport prior to us getting on like Towing basically saying check your carry-on and we just ignored and walked on with them yeah and I I mean I flew on.
Tayson: The same jet obviously just a day earlier and and was able to get our my coat on I would just also build on yours your um favorite with the coda for for me and Bree we were there were times where like Bree had to walk around for the majority of a day while I was you know we checked out of this Airbnb she was walking around until we can get on a train you know so she has her all of her Gear with her on her back essentially for five hours the day instead of having to have rolling luggage and and all of that kind of stuff um she's able to just have it in the code UL you know able to use a quality hip belt make it very comfortable she's basically just walking.
Tayson: Around downtown Munich killing you know hours of time but then for us it was like we're hopping on trains we're hopping off trains and this is with everything like we weren't leaving half of our gear here while we're traveling around we had everything while we're hopping on trains walking around markets getting back on trains getting on airplanes it's just it was it was definitely like the key piece of gear I feel like for this too because then when you get to some of these locations you do you dump your pack and then you just compress up all the side pouches and then I use it as the day pack to still carry you know an extra jacket to carry your gloves because it was dang cold um heck I was even using uh leggings you.
