Tayson: Hey everybody welcome back to the liberal Troy podcast powered by other vitals today we have a super interesting interview it's not your typical interview in fact we just finished it up and I really really enjoyed the conversation the conversation was with Glenn Anderson of Youth Wilderness experiences and we really talked a lot about International trips uh planning those breaking down some barriers of what keeps people from going on them things to look for some really good tips in there and we also started to talk about why the outdoors is more important than ever really culminating with smartphones and what they are doing to society how they're affecting you personally how they're taking away from happiness and how the outdoors is a really good way to combat that so that part of the conversation was absolutely.
Tayson: Fascinating as well and so I think this was just a great great podcast with that though let's talk a little bit about who Glenn Anderson is and get into the interview itself so Glenn Anderson is an outdoor guide from our home state of Utah he holds a bachelor's degree from Southern Utah University in leadership and group dynamics and a master's degree from the University of Utah and Outdoor Adventure programming after working for a few years as a youth Seminary teacher for his church Glenn decided to merge his love of the outdoors and his experience working with young people and his faith into one project that being youth Wilderness experiences a program dedicated to helping religious teenagers disconnect from the world and reconnect with nature themselves and God again Glenn was an awesome interviewee learned a.
Tayson: Lot there I think you guys will learn a lot too so we'll go ahead and roll into that podcast right now all right Glenn super happy to have you on the podcast today I think you've got a lot to share with our audience um super excited to just dive into things like International trips how the heck you plan some of those what those look like I think even from my perspective I haven't done a lot of international hiking backpacking trips anything like that so there's just that that side of like oh this is going to be too much too hard to pull off uh but also just there's there's so much I think to to what you're doing and the why you're doing it with these groups and so um yeah I think this to. Start off maybe let's just hear a little bit of your background of like how did you start this I think everyone's a little bit interested in like entrepreneurship and so like how did you go about just starting a business and starting to guide.
Glen: Um from the very beginning cool so first of all I'm stoked to be here um I've Loved Outdoor Vitals I have a lot of your your gear and I I just got back from every Space Camp and I brought your jacket and it kept me nice and warm.
Tayson: Which Which jacket did you take if you.
Glen: Don't mind me asking man it's a puppy Jack and it's your new one that's like uh I don't know what it's like the offset baffles yeah they offset baffles.
Tayson: What's it called Noah Pro Nova Pro yeah that's sweet um I would be probably the one I would recommend to take there I would think it's good the biggest obvious warmest one we've got it's actually a little bit.
Glen: Too hot for what I wanted to like open up all the vents it feels good so that's.
Tayson: Awesome.
Glen: Um anyways I started so when I went to school at suu I my goal was to become like an outdoor director at a school.
Tayson: Okay.
Glen: Um and then life kind of took me some different some different paths down some different paths and so um I ended up going away from my my degree in outdoor and adventure programming and I started teaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ to teenagers at high schools um did that for 10 years loved it but missed I hated doing just like being at a desk and I like being around the kids but I hated preparing lessons going to meetings all that stuff being around during the summer and so uh I decided to combine my two like the two things I love the most the gospel and then Outdoors and um so about 2017 I decided just to do one trip um see if it was even viable and so I brought about 20 kids we went. Backpacking in eastern Utah and it was a huge success.
Tayson: Um is this just something you're doing like why you're still at that other job or did you like quit the other job no I.
Glen: Didn't quit yeah yeah in fact I didn't think it was ever going to be a real it was just something that I was like hey I wanna I Wanna Get Back Outdoors again I feel like I can connect better with youth when I'm Outdoors they don't see me as some suit um and so we went backpacking canyoneering cliff jumping um I think that's about it and uh it was awesome kids loved it told all their friends next year we had four trips and then the next summer after that there was like five trips and before I knew it I was using all my vacation.
Tayson: A lot of trips to do while you're just.
Glen: On vacation time yeah so it wasn't great for my uh for my family life yeah um I was using all my vacation life was like hey we can't do it so anyways we started looking at it I'm like hey can I do this full time um and started really feeling like that's what I should do and so uh quit teaching seminary and about three years ago and so I've been doing it full time ever.
Tayson: Since was there like a number of trips you felt like you needed to have happen to make that jump or something or I wasn't more less like how much I could.
Glen: Make because when I I done a lot of trips like this for other programs like I worked at Wilderness survival um for troubled youth I'd worked at some like I don't know if your followers are familiar with the program called hfy or efy afy adventure for youth I'd worked for a bunch of different programs and I wanted I felt like some of the programs were great but they had too many kids there was like 300 kids and they were staying like dorm style and then the other programs were really good there were about 20 kids but they cost like four or five thousand dollars a piece so I wanted to like make it more affordable but small group um and so I want to take 20 kids at a time go out on this crazy.
Glen: Adventure where they felt like they were out of the World by themselves we were like our own team trying to survive um and uh yeah and so quickly I realized why nobody was doing small group cheap trips because it's not really sustainable for like to live off of but uh figured out a way to make it work and once I once I was like if I can make this much money then I'll be okay and so so I did it just made the jump it was scary it was scary but yeah.
Tayson: I could bootstrapped it as long as you can but at some point you've got to make that jump just gotta go for it so at this point um and I mean I want to touch on this stuff like you go into some of these some amazing places from Alaska like say Everest Base Camp like I've noticed one on there it was like island hopping and like all sorts I'm like I would sign up for some of these these look really really cool but when you're first starting out like were you doing International stuff already or was it.
Glen: Just domestic stuff yeah so when I started out I was just domestic or at least for my business but like personally I've always just had the bug to get out and go explore the world and so the first international trip I did was just somewhere where I'd always like going and so I'd been there maybe four or five times and I felt comfortable I'm like okay I'm gonna I'm gonna do this so um took a group to Mexico and uh and it's I speak the language but I don't even speak it that great I speak Portuguese fluently so I speak Spanish like 50 50 maybe um and it was scary but at first I was doing all my own guiding like I was guiding the backpacking the river whatever we were doing I was guiding.
Glen: But now that as we've grown bigger and bigger it's just not sustainable so now when I go vet a place I'll go there for a couple weeks like I'm going to Tanzania or Tanzania I don't know how to say it in January to go figure out Kilimanjaro um we want to go Summit that and so I'll go out there for a couple weeks I'll go test out a couple different companies and then I'll make it I'll make a choice on who we should who's the best group to take a group of teenagers.
Tayson: Or adults okay so so when you're looking at any of these International trips and you're you're in a slightly different um vein but I think there's probably a lot of crossover um like do you recommend booking a guide if you're gonna go if you're just gonna go hike them out not Kilimanjaro yeah.
Glen: There's like I think you might have to have one for that yeah there's some that you do like if you go hike in control to Machu Picchu they require you to have a guide okay um if you go to Kilimanjaro you also have to have a guide but if you do have a space camp you don't have to okay so I think it kind of depends on how comfortable you are like I think someone like you would be you'd be fine or maybe your first time you might want to hire a guy and then your second time.
Tayson: I got this there's a lot of yeah there's a lot of like prep work that would go in without a guide right so I think that's kind of some of the things in the back of my mind is like uh like hiring a guy just sounds so crazy but hiring the guide is like feels like it might be kind of the easy button to be like okay like I'm not gonna go because I'm holding myself back from like oh I don't have time to plan I don't have time to figure all this out instead it's like you book the guide they make sure you've got everything you need like they email you what you've you know give you a punch list of hey show up with this and then you just go right like it. It feels a little bit easier but at the same time being me I guess I'm kind of like can I hire a guy.
Glen: That's how I feel as well and some like so ever space count for example um it's so cheap I mean it's okay it's almost cheaper to hire a guy than to try to do it all.
Tayson: Yourself interesting and so you're helping out the locals yeah.
Glen: Um you're giving them a job uh you get to see the culture more I mean you're with a local he can teach you some stuff that you probably wouldn't learn by yourself um but then after having done it once um a base Camp's a little bit different because you don't Camp you could camp but they have little tea houses you stay in and so they book all the tea houses for you which makes it nice they get all the permits like there's three different Parks you have to enter into and get the.
Tayson: Permits are you bringing a tent even or are you staying just in the tea house at.
Glen: Base camp you stay in tea houses okay yeah you could stay intense like there are some people that do it not very many um it's a trail so once you get to a little town you fly into lukla once you get there it's a trail pretty much the whole way to base camp and so everything has to come up on a on a yak and so when I say tea house they're not like Grand luxurious hotels it's like a two by four it's like plywood room with the bed in it and so but so you could do it by yourself but it's so cheap to hire a guide it's almost.
Tayson: I don't know it's just easy what about like what tips would you have on guide selection like are there certain things to look for when you're trying to vet.
Glen: Someone you know yeah absolutely um and for me it's different if I go by myself um compared if I take a group when I take a group I want to make sure everything is just safe as can be I want to make sure they have contingencies they have communication devices um I'll ask them a bunch of if this happened what would you do have you had this happen before what's your uh what's your success rate um peeking out or uh there's just a bunch of different questions I want to make sure they're they're going to keep us safe and they have contingencies for if something goes wrong um a lot of hikes sound really dangerous and then some of them really are really dangerous so ever space camp is a pretty safe hike you just.
Glen: Need to worry about altitude sickness it was sixteen thousand Seventeen five seven okay five-ish um and then there's other if you're truly like somebody and something there's other hikes that are a little bit more dangerous and so you need to be a little bit more selective of who you who you go with um but as a rule of thumb like for me when I'm going to try out something new I try to get a guide and then I see hey I could do this by myself next time or this guiding company made it so easy for me to bring groups down.
Tayson: Um so I feel like I feel like one of the concerns I have with selecting a guide would be like just that that potential feeling of like I don't know like like let's say you go with the one who has I don't know if you can find reviews on them or something like that but maybe you're feeling like you're overpaying maybe someone's like oh man this one looks great but you feel like you're overpaying or something like that is there like are you looking at reviews to find some of these are you looking at like is there different ways that you found to just vet them out where you're feeling like hey this is you know like like a decent deal right like because I think I've heard of stories of like you know maybe. Down in Peru where people just kind of get you know taken advantage of or whatnot for pricing or you know maybe it's a bad experience or maybe you know some something or like oh man you could have done that for half the price if you would have booked this way right stuff.
Glen: Like that there's always companies from the United States that are booking in place of companies in Peru for example and they're charging like three times the amount and so I spend a lot of time searching um searching Out reviews and looking at first-hand accounts and reaching out to Buddies who have done trips before to make sure I'm getting a good price and then to make sure they're they're a good company but reviews just like when you're shopping on Amazon like you're looking for something with a lot of reviews and then you're looking to see how like what they say in the reviews to see if it's their real real reviews and.
Tayson: Okay and can you get like pricing info.
Glen: Oh yeah you can I mean you can or you just I guess if you get pricing from three different companies or something then you can kind of see if if one's way out there yeah it's very similar to shopping on Amazon yeah that's funny.
Tayson: Because like I think you just put up I think a lot of times people just put up these barriers like oh that just sounds overwhelming but it's really it's like if you just sit down with the computer or whatever and start setting it out it's not as maybe as hard as and it takes some time but it's really not that hard you usually have a pretty good idea once you're going like hey this is a good company or I'm getting a good deal and I'm a little worried if it's a good if it's a good company or not so yeah what do you what have you found to be like people's biggest fears or anxieties when going on starting on an.
Glen: International trip like that I think people especially Americans were just afraid we think America is so great and that everywhere else is so dangerous and so I think most people just think that the world is dangerous um when in reality most places are pretty safe yeah when I went to ever space camp just a couple weeks ago never once did I feel in danger ever once I feel like I was getting taken advantage of um when I got on the trail there were people that were like 75 years old from Europe not a lot of Americans but a lot of like Indians a lot of Europeans um the same thing when you're in Peru or when you're in you know wherever if you're in Africa or Mexico um as long as you're you know you're. Not going to a really dangerous place like there's a couple places you just stay away from but for the most place for the most part places are pretty safe and guiding companies I mean it's their livelihood and they don't want an accident and they want to make sure you're taken good care of and so.
Tayson: Isn't that interesting though to just like I think it's becoming like way less right just the I don't want to call like racism but like almost the the idea of um I don't know let's say you're going to some third world country and you're just scared that everyone's gonna try to steal from you or everyone's gonna try to and while there is some of that and they are probably more motivated because of their conditions like people are good.
Glen: Everywhere you know yeah that's the thing I find the most is just like people are good the only difference between me and you and them or where we were born and uh there's a book something that compels there's just there is there's just something inside people I think that compel them to to want to do good like like morals you bring it into morals or whatever it is like it's almost like you're just born with some level of morals like everyone wants to do good and to be good and and uh and yeah like everyone's not out to get you as soon as you cross an international border like they're happier there they're happy you know they want to talk with you they want to be your best friend half the time you know what. I mean like it's crazy how how safe it is there's a book I love if you ever if you're looking it's called factfulness and pretty much the whole book is how bad Americans views are about the safety of the world it's super.
Tayson: Good yeah and it's true there's so many more people that travel from everywhere besides the US like Europeans are just just seems like they're born to travel so much more than us like they're just that's part of their culture almost more to go on a big Walkabout in life at some point and um whereas that's just not a not a thing.
Glen: Here in the U.S so and if you look at the media like you might see something in Mexico that's dangerous and your Mac oh man Mexico is really dangerous and there are parts of Mexico that are dangerous but the same thing happens in Mexico they'll see like when the rioting was going on at the Capitol like it'll be like they think all of America is riding where it's like this one little city in one little spot and you I mean it's not happening in Montana it's not happening in Utah but they think it is and the same thing happens with us and vice versa like we might hear of like someone gets killed and we're like oh man if I go to Mexico they're gonna kidnap you and I'm gonna kill but it happens in. Like one really danger like it could be like downtown Detroit or Mexico City in a bad area so.
Tayson: I don't know if that makes sense yeah so of all these different trips like I mentioned Alaska Everest island hopping Thailand Machu Picchu just some of the ones that were on this website when I was looking like what's been like your personal favorite or one that you don't.
Glen: Get sick of going to over and over yeah I think uh there's a little town in a little state in Mexico called Chiapas and I really love that state I've been six times in the last two years it's kind of like Havasupai if you're familiar with that in the Grand Canyon the blue waterfalls yeah um but without the people so you go down there and you have these blue waterfalls where you can Cliff jump and repel and swim and relax but without people and for a third of the price.
Tayson: And so how like where do you have to fly into like how far into Mexico he flits.
Glen: The southernmost state so it's right on the border Guatemala um so it's probably a five hour flight okay from Vegas oh you usually fly to Houston and then.
Tayson: Vegas yeah but that's super interesting I wasn't expecting that I was expecting like one of the poster board you know.
Glen: Destinations yeah it's kind of hard like some of the trips like like uh the backpacking trips you don't wake up every morning you're like oh my gosh today's gonna be so fun it's more like oh crap I've got to climb a 3000 foot pass today it's a little bit more like almost like you're running a marathon you're doing it because for the accomplishment and so those usually feel really good when you're done like hey I just made it to base camp of Everest or I just I just backpacked in Cattrall or I just uh whatever you're doing climb Kilimanjaro um and then there's some trips that are just like pure fun like I'm in Costa Rica I'm learning how to surf today I'm going white water rafting tomorrow and or my there's a trip in.
Glen: The United States we do a Wilderness survival trip where you go with just the clothes on your back and a tarp and you'll learn how to make friction fire or or teaching them how to harvest a chicken um so it's it's they're all a little bit different the the Wilderness survival one's probably a little bit more fulfilling for the kids like life-changing Costa Rica is just more fun um the Mexico one we do a lot more service so maybe it's a little bit more eye-opening to the conditions of the people and so they've all got like their own little spin on how they're hell they're awesome but uh yeah if I was just like I'm gonna go back there in fact I'm probably gonna take my kids in February they're four six and eight.
Tayson: That's a whole other aspect is just year-round I mean you hop on a plane and you can be somewhere where it's a whole lot warmer right like here we've learned how to adapt and backpack in the cold and and we and I do love it but at the same time sometimes like if you're gonna take a vacation like to go somewhere it's warm it's just kind of a nice break or or some people are just like you know I just won't I just won't travel or like you know backpack or whatever in the cold like it's just not for me um that opens up a whole new Avenue you know just one one flight down and and you're there so um yeah I imagine too when you're backpacking you're probably like carrying extra or safety. Stuff and and right so like do you I mean just curious if you ever do you ever like weigh your.
Glen: Pack in like what it typically yeah it depends on so if I'm doing a domestic trip where I'm the guy and my pack is way too heavy um but if we if I'm going out um with a guiding company I make sure to see what they have and then I'll probably usually bring like an extra pick and choose quilt a good a good um first aid kit and so my pack isn't that heavy on some of these trips like everspace Camp um they have you have Porters or Sherpas that carry your stuff and so your packs you're basically have a day pack right yeah it's a day pack and so really some of the some of the hardest hikes you'd think aren't that hot hard because the people that are carrying your stuff like you. Go over to the touchers and beaver and do a way harder hike than anything like you're carrying your own gear you're going up over 12 000 foot Peaks um and those hikes are harder than some of the big hikes that you think would be really hard because of the accommodations they make for you so are.
Tayson: Are some of these hikes in your opinion like too commercialized.
Glen: So we'd have to go through each one right um and part of the reason I like shop is because it's not very touristy ever space camp I was blown away by how many people were on the trail just like did not even comprehend the amount of people that were going to be there same with the Inca Trail but when you get off those Trails just a little bit like the Inca Trail is really famous in Peru um base camp is really famous in in Nepal but there's so many other trekking paths just like going to just as beautiful places and once you get off that trail just a little bit then you're it seems a lot less commercialized yeah.
Tayson: Can like will guides do that like can.
Glen: You get yeah so you can find ones that are taking the the long way around or something absolutely okay it's just a time commitment that's the hard part um base Camp's already it's 15 days and so if you go off the trail even just a little bit it's adds two or three to two or three days holy.
Tayson: Smokes yeah because you're going like a.
Glen: Whole other range.
Tayson: Is a lot of that just because the amount of time you have to take to acclimate.
Glen: Unlike Everest Base Camp yeah the travel time to get there is like two days just flying um and then you every thousand feet you're supposed to acclimate for a day and they you you know you hike high and Camp low and and so if you're if you're going over a thousand or two thousand feet they have you stay for a day in a place and just acclimate but it's pretty cool because of these little Villages where you can kind of go explore and meet the locals and stuff to do and I just hunkered up.
Tayson: In a tent or yeah and Nepal is cool just.
Glen: Because when you go to Mexico there's selling little trinkets in Nepal they're selling your puffy jackets and crampons and that's cool they've really adapted to the to the.
Tayson: Crowd huh yeah it's the right product in the right place apparently we need to put a shop out there on the trail I'm.
Glen: Not joking there's a little town called namche Bazaar if you put a little shop there you would make I mean you'd it would blow up that's funny we we actually have a a grant right now at the state of Utah to like expand internationally and we've primarily the research has come back to like look into like expanding into like Germany and stuff but that would be funny to just plop shape is our look at this town namche bizarre I'm telling you it's this crazy little town you have to hike to get to but there's so many outdoor gear like Patagonia is there North Face is there and they all these hikers from all around the world they often stay there at accumulate for a day and they're just blowing money and buying gear and a. Lot of people don't bring gear because they know they can buy it in that town.
Tayson: Oh they're just going and getting kitted out right there yeah wow yeah I'll have to look into it that'd be interesting that's just another reason I need to go.
Glen: For myself right yeah you should go go do some business research out there yeah.
Tayson: That's the best thing about the field that's what I was gonna say is you you've got all the same benefits man this research you give it and and I appreciate you coming on this is kind of your off season right now you're taking basically sign ups for next year yep at this point and so I don't know if I asked you this but how many total like trips do you or do you think you'll do.
Glen: Next year oh next year I think I have.
Tayson: 12 or 13. Okay do you go on all of those.
Glen: I used to I don't anymore okay so I have a some trip leaders that go in my place and then the local guides in the countries or the places we go out one of.
Tayson: The guys that I've actually interviewed on this podcast Brandon Gillum or Gilman um he's I guess he's worked with here before yeah yeah the BYU head soccer coach yep yep he was like you need to connect with this guy I'm like yeah I.
Glen: Know that guy yeah he came on this we do a trip in the east side of Zion where we go canyonarian and he was one of the.
Tayson: Leaders for me nice he's a stud yeah.
Glen: Yeah but people like him yeah okay they.
Tayson: Kind of go for me that's cool that's nice but but now you're telling me before we hopped on the podcast you're like are you you're not wanting to grow past this stage or like man I don't know.
Glen: What I want to do uh that's the conundrum of business right I think people think like there's a calling in life that this is what you're made to do and I I view life more like you wander around and you find something you like and you just focus all your energy on that one thing until you no that's what you want to keep doing or you want to wander somewhere else and just do as much good as you can in that one spot and then when it's time to move on you just move on I think it's hot I think a lot of people hold on when they don't need to hold on um they're scared of change or moving or growing um and so I love where I'm at right now and I want. We call it why we youth Wilderness experience I want it to always exist I don't know if I'll be the one that'll be pushing it Forward Forever but for right now I definitely will be yeah.
Tayson: It's interesting so I mean I mean just speaking of change and pushing people and stuff um what's it what's it like I mean part of what you're passionate about is obviously like the religious side of this bringing them out letting them you know connect with God and just just disconnect too from everything else but like what's what's it like I guess to bring people these kids out and see that disconnection and then reconnection with themselves and maybe just for some of these people it's probably their first time really spending time outdoors and and you know how many of these how many of these kids um do you think leave this experience in like join a life a life full of Outdoor Adventures versus like now this is just the one and done right because it's.
Tayson: Hard to right it's like the the difference I guess of giving a man a fish or like teaching her to fish right but like you can't you can't make these kids I I guess I'm asking a little bit selfishly on that front because a part a big Focus for us here Outdoor Vitals is to try to get people Outdoors experience this disconnection from technology and reconnection with themselves um but but it's and you know and we even have funds to put into this type of stuff but it's like where do you put it where it goes the farthest right and so I guess circling back around like how many of these kids that you do take out do you feel like stick with the outdoors.
Glen: Yeah that's I wish I need to attract that better I wish I had a better way to track that but uh the kids these days they grew they grow up different even than we did just however 10 15 years ago in 2012 when the smartphone got introduced it's crazy to look at the studies what what's happened with depression Suicidal Thoughts anxiety and there's just a big study yesterday on CNN about from 2016 to 2021 Suicidal Thoughts have gone up 59 and and those are four years yeah those are just the people that and I mean covet has a bunch to do with that as well but those are just people who actually went to the emergency room for their Suicidal Thoughts so that increase has gone up almost 60 percent.
Tayson: It's like not just yeah I think about it but like like I'm in trouble getting treated getting help holy cow and so the.
Glen: Kids are growing up a little bit different of a world and so uh I think the um they don't have a lot of them well we could we can do this later let me answer your question first but uh I definitely want to go back to that too so um so my program's a week long sometimes a two week long program and I don't think it's long enough to create a sustained change in somebody but what I hope it's like is more like a you know when your cell phone's a little buggy and you turn it off and it works good again I hope it's more like that like they get a taste I like the way this makes me feel and we talk a lot about like hey notice how you feel different what's. Different I'm connecting with people around me I'm outside I'm exercising I'm doing something you have like a phone band yeah no phones on my trips no phones.
Tayson: Yeah and so um give Mike a pager yeah here's a nice little watch there's the pigeon you want to send a note.
Glen: Even if you gave him like a Garmin in reach they'd be like trying to text like text somebody text off of this like you know cycling through ABCD okay that one yeah um so uh there are kids that like come back year after year after year and it's easy for me to see that it's like created a change where they're like I'm in the outdoors now like I'm a canyoneer or I'm a whatever um and a lot of my trips now I'm kind of trying to change the focus a little bit like the Caribbean trip where they're island hopping um they get scuba certified on the trip and so it's not only they're going on a fun trip but they're learning a skill that hopefully they can change and uh I'm trying to do the. Same thing with my Canyon classes where they're they're not just coming and having this crazy adventure but they're also learning skills um so they can go home and practice them and then they can start a lifelong habit.
Tayson: Getting in the outdoors all right it's like you can't like a big part of inflicting change is like like their family Dynamics their friend Dynamics their school Dynamics and it's like that you can you can't touch any of that but you can give them that taste of you know maybe what they are missing and they can be aware of that and hopefully build on that but.
Glen: Um and it's it's like uh so I love sports I play sports I played soccer all growing up um but once high school is done it's really hard to like unless you're really good continue to play I played through college in a little bit but even now it's still I love to play but it's really hard and the great thing about Outdoors is you can do it when you're 50 60 70 you can find things that will that you can do so if you can give a teenager a hobby when they're 16 17 18 that'll that'll last their whole lifetime something happens to a lot of adults um when they're about 25 26 or they get their first knee injury or they can't play their Sports anymore and it really affects their happiness it really.
Glen: Like and they don't have anything to go to you'll see it physically right yeah I mean just like like a light switch it just starts to change and so if you can do something as a as a teenager to get them outside or it's an individual I can go hiking I can go whatever the I can go scuba diving I can get whatever it is um they can do that their whole life and it will increase their odds of happiness.
Tayson: And I don't want to get on too big with Tango with this but I do think there is some I find that a lot of people that played Sports can can make a switch into something like the outdoors and I think a part of that too like at least the ones that get deep into it are like like get more consistent with it is maybe just some of the goal setting and challenge oriented mentality that comes from sports but um yeah I mean I think that that's just one other thing to throw in the mix of like the people that I see get really passionate about the outdoors they find something to to set a goal for or to set some kind of you know something to pushes because like everyone everyone I think knows.
Tayson: That they just went outdoors more often they'd be happier but but like that just gets drowned out by all the noise right unless you can set fit your goals right now I mean personally I I ran a an ultra this last summer and that was a massive driver for me to like exercise get outside and run in the mornings and do things like that and right now I'm in this like flounder stage where it's like oh man I got like the holidays coming up that's like the worst and this it's like and it's easy to be like Oh I'm gonna wait till January you know and so I like pushing but I'm like man it's taking more willpower right now to get outside than it normally does for me and and I know that it's.
Tayson: Because I don't necessarily have like a big trip planned a big adventure planned you know something that I'm that I'm working towards so I you know just bring it back to that Sports thing I do think that I've personally seen some of that as just I think it might be because of they're a little bit more challenge oriented um but for those of you listening I think that's the biggest way to get outside is find some kind of a goal or a challenge that something that you just want to do bucket list you know maybe it's to go hike trekking through Iceland or something like put that on the wall you know and just just move towards it and you'll it'll help you get outside but.
Glen: There's a maybe you don't want to go I'll take 10 seconds on this but uh there's a principle called flow have you ever heard of flow flow is where you you engage in an activity that's hard enough that it takes all your focus but not so hard that you get overwhelmed um and what the research says is you need to do that three or four times a day to to increase your height to be happy um and teenagers are usually really and young adults are usually really good at engaging in flow some people get from mountain biking or Ceramics or Sports ultra running but as you get older it gets harder to do those things because of work and because of whatever kids and so if you can find a way to engage in activities. Where you feel like you're in the moment you're not thinking about what you should be doing next you're totally encompassed in the moment and you can find a hobby that does that for you um then you're more likely to stay happy.
Tayson: Yeah so I want to I want to kind of back up to just that concept of cell phones that's that's a fascinating study um to me like I've just been on this kick lately of of just realizing more and more into what level Tech is affecting us I say Tech but I think it's easy to just say smartphone honestly like people were working on computers before 2012 and you know there was probably degradation like the internet was like the other big influx but like the smartphone is like the number one I I just think it's I think it's creating like a pandemic right like you you mentioned suicide but um which is a pretty pretty solid indicator but that's kind of like the Pinnacle there's there's so many levels beneath that that are huge and.
Tayson: And you know during the month of October I was like all right I'm gonna I'm gonna like do a social media fast you know I just took them off my phone um sometimes I need to like log in on a computer at work to do things for work but like instantly saw this boost come November I'm like well I'm not going to put them back on my phone but I have noticed like I didn't take YouTube off my phone and now there's YouTube shorts and now there's you know what I mean and because and then it's just so quick you can fall into the same trap the same trap you know I won't go near Tick Tock personally because it's just like the next level of impossible but um but it is interesting because one.
Tayson: Of the biggest things I realized right before I was like I'm gonna take this off is for me personally where most of the unhappiness is coming from from it was obviously like just I was filling up every 20 seconds I had you know you'd be whatever you're doing you're waiting in the line at grocery store what do you do you pull out your phone like why can't you just stand there for 30 seconds until you're at the you know at the clerk or whatever but um you're so you're losing all these little micro seconds that allow your your brain to process to allow you to you know just just think about your day to find good things you know in the day or whatnot and you're filling it up with with this other stuff which.
Tayson: And to me what I wasn't really realizing I was doing was you're constantly comparing to everything you see right whether you think you are whether you don't think you are whether you think it's affecting you whether it's not like there's one day I want to wake up I'm like why am I following this guy like he's running his business I'm running my business why am I like looking at him and being like maybe I should do it comparing this yeah like like you know and I just realized I'm like I didn't even realize I was comparing I thought I was just watching but no like at a subconscious level I was comparing I was thinking well maybe I should do this or you know maybe in like maybe I should just go buy a new.
Tayson: Truck to buy a new truck you know what I mean like just to have and and it was really stupid because when I when I like really sit down and logically think like if I want to make a big decision a lot of times I'll just sit down really think about it really think about like what new life experiences something could give me like what's the real benefit what how long will this like if I did go buy a new truck how long will the joy of that new truck really last with me versus something else and I'll look at it that way and usually like a new truck is not high on the list when you really peel back the layers but then you get sucked into this where it's like no I feel. Like I need one so that you know because it's this constant little comparison constant dopamine hits and um I think it's I think it's I honestly think it's a pandemic and we're we're.
Glen: Still at the beginning of it I think so it's crazy like for me and you we can see the difference like when I'm off my phone and on my phone like I can see a difference like there's a problem here I need to but for teenagers they've been born with it in their pocket so they they start to feel sad um have bad thoughts and they they just don't understand they can't they can't make the connection like me and you can and so it's it's really crazy um you said we're at the start of this like pandemic I think you're right I think 50 years when we look back from at this point we're gonna be like what were we doing giving kids smartphones um why why are we stupid enough to like and uh.
Glen: The sides behind it is pretty they have neuroscientists that are developing these apps right to make them as the same people who addict slot that addict that uh that are inventing slot machines and how to make them the most addictive as possible like all the different actions that are more likely to get you to continue to play are the same people that are that are making Instagram and uh Tick Tock and their sole purpose is to get a kid to be on there as much time as possible and they know they know they know well what they're doing they know that their product is causing anxiety depression um and their goal is to get that kid to get as many dopamine hits as they can so they'll continue to go back on it and not. Just kids adults us.
Tayson: Well what's interesting about that too is I heard this quote the other day um if you don't pay for a service like if you're not paying for a product then you are the product you are the yeah they're mining you right they're getting that's all that it is they're mining us so that they can you know charge businesses like us add money right to spend money on there and it's I got you just just like to stop and think about that for half a second too but don't be a sheep in their game right and I I it's not like I don't have a SmartPhone I use it all the time um but it's something that you have to always constantly keep in check.
Glen: Yeah and I so I study happiness a lot that's kind of what I um my goal is to help as many teenagers just to find a better life and um there's four main chemicals that our brain releases to make us happy dopamine and dopamine kind of gets a bad rap because it's kind of the Habit that you can like get addicted to something because of dopamine but it's really important for motivating so dopamine is a is a one the next one is serotonin and serotonin's kind of like that uh what do they call it the cheat like if you do something great it's like your achievement it's like makes you I wrote it down I can't.
Tayson: Remember yeah it's the.
Glen: It's like a sense of Pride like that's when your serotonin's released okay um there's one called oxytocin that's the hugging drug that's what makes us want to be social connect with others and then there's one called there's an endorphins and endorphins are are when you're doing that hike and it's like 30 below and you gotta hike another Mile and it's just super uncomfortable and then you reach the top or you reach camp and and also and you're like it just feels good you have to feel that uncomfortableness first and then endorphin hits later you're an ultra Runner you probably feel the runner's high it's called the runner so yeah it's actually what endorphins are Runners High and um and those four those four chemicals are constantly being released in our brain hopefully to help us.
Glen: Be happier and what social media does is it takes the other three away and just focuses on dopamine and so uh when we go outside and we challenge ourselves and we go out with others and there's less distractions so we have to focus on each other it really focuses on serotonin and oxytocin and endorphins when we when we challenge ourselves to do things that are hard and so the science behind getting Outdoors is really powerful it's activating all the parts of our brain to release more chemicals that'll help us be happier and so when you go outside you're more likely scientifically to feel happy because if especially if you have a goal in mind like I'm going to hike that Peak I'm going to mountain bike this Trail even though I'm just going to walk. This path and I'm going to connect with my friend the chances that you'll come away from that.
Tayson: All these uh I won't call them critics but these guys are like why sometimes we'll get a batter up because we'll be like we've done a handful of things where it's like challenges we're trying to like accomplish this section of Trail or whatever and we have a timeline like we can't really just be out there on trail all the time with families and jobs and stuff and people like why are you trying to go so fast why are you trying to do this and it's like I don't know because I like doing nothing in nature but I also like so many Peaks you know or or the endorphins that are released after like uh I'm doing this in this amount of time and you go and it just sucks like in the moment you're like. Why am I doing this but then afterwards you're like yeah did you feel it man it just feels good that's that's interesting because I like all of it you know but but I'm like sometimes the last someone will ask the pose a question like that and you're like I don't know why we pushed so hard sometimes but I I've learned to like it so and in America we live in a world.
Glen: That's so comfortable that we it's if you don't get out of your comfort zone and you're not doing those hard things if you're never like oh crap I don't have enough money to pay the bills and so you bust your butt to go pay the bills then those endorphins will probably never get released and if you if your goal in life is to create a lifestyle that's so comfortable for you that you're never doing hard things then that's one of those four chemicals that will stop being released and you'll think you'll be happier because you're living a more comfortable life you have the new truck you have you go into work when you want to but in reality your happiness will probably go down because those endorphins aren't being released as much as you wanted. To.
Tayson: Yeah I think that's really interesting um I find that a lot of times like I do I think I think because life is so easy it it becomes gray in some ways I also think that you know just take it take it in the form of bring it back to religion for just a second like with that with life being so easy like people need God less right um you know like before it's like you got a bad crop or something like that and you guys were gonna like struggle to survive through the winter and stuff it was like you're just constantly praying for help right you know and you needed a God and now where we just have so much there's so much more science out there too to look at there's so much. More just easiness in life the need isn't there and so then they quit you can quit feeding into you know your faith side of of your life or um praying or whatever it is and pretty soon that just starts to fade away to to then lack of any belief right.
Glen: Um yeah Faith's like a muscle if you stop using it it'll eventually die yeah.
Tayson: All right but yeah it is it's just so true though like the like I think more people need to do more hard things like people you know as I got into running and started to just question like why I run and it's like well I'm honestly the worst at running like I'm 200 pounds I'm tall like I'm I'm like I never ran before you know what I mean like I was a thrower and an alignment in in football and um so when I look at like why I run it's like it's just purely the challenge of it and just purely like like like wanting to experience the Downs that you can experience that up I think luckily like you say as as someone who grew up being able to see both sides of that coin.
Tayson: That's a huge Advantage huge Advantage versus someone who has never had to endure the hard things and then and then got to experience the high or maybe they only experienced hard things like that's a whole nother conversation whether you experience just the highs or you're just living in the lows right like they're but being able to see experience both sides of that um I think for me has been a huge advantage of my life just I had some some chances in my life I think to take big wins and I could recognize those as wins and then I like got addicted to that feeling right I don't remember the serotonin or the proud you know you get proud of something and then you realize like holy cow if you work really hard you can accomplish. Something and then you can get that feeling again and but some people I just don't think they get that they either don't get the chance or they don't have someone help coach them you know or Aid them or Mentor them to get that chance to even like get addicted to that feeling of a more lasting happiness right.
Glen: Yeah the society we live in that it's just America's the best I love Living in America I mean I'm in Nepal and I'm watching the sherpa carry like 200 pounds of wood on his back I'm like oh my gosh that guy is so strong and I if I would have followed him home I'd probably he probably is a really happy dude and I wouldn't change like I probably would never trade um my life for his life even if even if I knew like let's say I could scientifically prove he was 100 happier than me I still wouldn't trade my life for his because comfort's one heck of a drug and uh we love it we love it so much and so it really takes like you have to intentionally live putting like you don't want.
Glen: To like make your life crappy but you want to always be challenging yourself and pushing yourself physically mentally spiritually um so that so you're I don't know so you're more likely to live a happy lifestyle instead of getting stuck in this comfort zone where where everything's comfortable and will never Escape it it's kind of like the monkey with the hand like he's got that thing he'll never let go I think we just don't want to let go of the comfort and so to run it all like to start running Ultras or to go out and Hike or to start a new hobby that pushes you is is one of the key ingredients to a happy life yeah.
Tayson: I think in my youth when I visited uh you know third world countries it was like oh man we need to fix them like we need to bring in stuff to them right and even in the you know we've we've given charity water a lot of money over time to build Wells and that's like as much as I want like really wanted to do because it was like I saw like the health side of things and it's more about a health thing than like a increase their their happiness their comfort but but at the same time it is it is a really interesting question I think as I get older and Society changes because when I was you know spending a lot of time in third little countries it was 2010 2011 12 really before.
Tayson: That age of smartphone hit hard um but not like so was like you come back and you're like oh man like how do you help those people and now it's like holy cow like maybe they were happier they got stuff here they got life figured out and we're the ones that are screwing up at this point maybe they don't have their needs all met right like they live a hard life but in in a lot of ways and I don't think anyone would want to trade places with them but but in a lot of ways a lot of them are very happy people still like they're they're experiencing both sides of that and they're living a pretty fulfilled life like I imagine at the end of their days of work they feel very fulfilled versus. I think a lot of people in this day and age leave work and they don't.
Glen: Feel that fulfilled right yeah and there's what's it called The Pursuit of Happiness right in America I think so somewhere along the lines we got confused with the pursuit of success and uh success doesn't bring happiness but kids think it does so they get so stressed out about grades so stressed about college that happiness once I achieve this success I'll be happy but you I mean you own a business that's really successful and I've started a business that's not super successful but it's getting there and uh I don't feel any different it hasn't brought any more happiness to me um because you're always looking forward right yeah so there's some things that just don't bring happiness The Pursuit of Happiness isn't the pursuit of.
Tayson: Success well I I bet though with you if you stopped and really like just stopped and slowed down life enough you could be very happy with your.
Glen: Accomplishments right yeah but but how like we don't do it enough I'm not saying like I'm not happy it's just not a different it doesn't change how I felt it wasn't a magic button it wasn't a magic once you achieved this like all of a sudden you're just gonna be super happy with your life it's always something I found it interesting that.
Tayson: When I started to to make more money I got more conservative of showing like I basically went off social media like like I don't post on social media I'd get on social media but I don't post because like it was funny but I think one of the like some of the first things I wanted to post is like I bought a new truck for me at that time it wasn't like a brand new trick or anything but like I had this desire to like post about it and I'm like that's terrible like what am I propagating and this was I don't know 2016 or something right and I'm like how does that help anybody you know what I mean like and and it was this really interesting experience and so what I find a lot. Of times now is like I rarely like I love to celebrate wins within the office but I rarely go out and tell family members or friends like what's going on and like these are the successes we've had because I don't know that like.
Glen: It's not you yeah there's some wisdom in that I think.
