Tayson: Hey everybody welcome back to the Live Ultralight podcast today we have a very special guest Andrew Stevens or Stephen um and we'll we'll uh he's a he's a podcast host on a different podcast that's exceptional I started to listen to it really really liked it really excited to have him on the podcast but if you're just tuning in to the liberal ultralight podcast for the first time uh on this podcast we are in the business of helping you get out on the trail more comfortably and more confidently help you eliminate some of those unknowns get inspired and just spend more time out on the trail so really glad to have you on here I would describe you Andrew after listening to Future podcasts as an excellent Storyteller I I think he's got a phenomenal way.
Tayson: Of telling a story uh your voice is very soothing I wish my voice is as soothing is yours to be a host on a podcast I think your voice is wonderful um and and yeah I just I really really enjoyed it now the the podcast that you host is called Trail weight and um I think there's some some double meanings and things inside there that we'll we'll get into but I really want to dive back into just your origin story with backpacking because I think we have followers that will really connect with that and I think there's a lot of um interesting tidbits in there of just like why you made some of these changes and so so essentially if and correct me where I'm wrong you were creeping up on nearly 400 pounds in.
Tayson: Weight you were feeling like you were physically not where you wanted to be and maybe mentally as well um and if I'm inferring here again just just like cut me off no I was doing great um but I find often for me at least that those two can go hand in hand um and you decided to just go out and do something crazy and essentially put it in the calendar that you're going to do the JMT the John Muir Trail which is a 200 mile long trail through the high countries um Sierra mountains so if it's a big task a phenomenal task and something that would probably be feel unrealistic to someone sitting in your scenario so I guess my first question to you is is why like where did this come from and why. Did you decide to set that as a goal and.
Andrew: Embark on that totally well first just thank you so much for having me on the show I love talking about this stuff so I'm excited to you know connect with a fellow Enthusiast but uh yeah I uh backing up a little bit like I I just loved camping you know I mean I had some I grew up camping with my family that was like our go-to vacation as a kid and then you know the sort of middle teenage years or whatever you have the stereotypical rebellion and it sort of fell back in love with it in early adulthood and just really enjoyed it and and the more I camped I was like well what if I could go to every single National Park you know what if I just you know I'm very goal oriented.
Andrew: Uh For Better or For Worse at times I don't know if you can see behind me uh there's a map and it's that little push pins of all the places I've camped and stuff like that so um awesome I'm kind of a collector in that way I guess yeah an archivist but yeah so there's just more and more things I wanted to do and uh I don't know if you're like this at all but I can sort of be very critical and harsh on myself but also very supportive at the same time so like when I looked at my physical health and my ability like I never beat myself up but I also recognize that like this is not where I want to be in order to do the things I want to do and.
Andrew: So essentially just you know made the decision of of hey you know I if I really want to do some of these things you know like I still want to hike the Grand Canyon never done that you know the permit system's a little rough but uh you know like all these like uh things and I was just like let me just do this uh in the back of my mind I was like this could make an interesting story since I work in you know podcasting and writing and entertainment and stuff like that I was like there might be something here and so like you said I put a date on the calendar I was like this will be a great motivation to help me sort of get to where I want to be and yeah. I ended up losing 100 pounds I did the hike spoiler um but but obviously that there's more to the story than that and you know like so many yeah like so many things it's you know like you plan to do one thing but all the tangents that teach you things along the way are are part of the I guess fun of it yeah what's really.
Tayson: Interesting to me is your story is like as I was listening to it it wasn't until this morning I was like dang this is so much like a program we did this year called The 100 Mile Challenge which is um essentially we sold some some beta slots to our our followers our members um and then we gave them like a framework that step by step took them how to train how to prepare and how to execute a hundred mile hike and um it was a really powerful thing in the sense that everyone that did it had really positive things to say about the program but two for me I got a lot of feedback and like felt very I don't know charged by it because a lot of times I'm working through a computer I'm.
Tayson: Working you know I'm interacting in that way and this was more interactive and so I was getting I got a lot out of it personally and so we're totally planning on doing it and I was like holy cow he just did like his own 100 Mile Challenge and so my my question I guess to that is like how did you how did you begin to prepare yourself um like did you have like mileage goals that you were trying to track did you have weight loss goals you're trying to track were you you know like what what steps along the way because you picked this it was almost a year out is that.
Andrew: Right yeah pretty much exactly yeah yeah.
Tayson: So when you when you picked that like was there Milestones you're like you're pushing for or is it just like get in the best shape I can before yourself uh.
Andrew: Yes and no um a little bit of both I guess I had I I had had some success with sort of you know losing weight or sort of getting strong before but up and down a bit so like I knew I knew I was capable of making some change I didn't know how much and then at the same time like I was already pretty active for a person of my size I was already hiking pretty regularly um obviously on vacation if we're going camping somewhere car camping somewhere I would you know look for decent length hikes you know not just the the the the quarter mile ones near the visitor center but you know getting out as close to the back country as possible I live near Griffith Park in Los Angeles which is a.
Andrew: Great city park that has some decent you know elevation gains and stuff like that so I I thought okay this is this is possible I've had some success in the past and so what I found hugely helpful and motivational to me is like one is just having a very set goal that you're aiming for that has its disadvantages too because if you can't reach your goal it can be very disheartening yeah but but the other thing like you mentioned if I had certain mileage goals or whatever is you know we live in the the Smartwatch Fitbit era and just being able to track things again has its downsides can be disheartening if you're not seeing the progress you want but it's finding one or two or three things that you can track where you can.
Andrew: See process for some people that's stepping on a scale every day um and if you can see those incremental changes for other people that's too much and it's you know so so that worked for me but I know that doesn't work for everyone and then another huge one is just the whole like if I'm getting steps or miles or hiking like can I just do a little bit more than I did the day before can I do a little bit more than I did the week before I ended up starting jogging through this which I had never done and was doing you know three miles almost every day and then would do like I got up to doing 10 miles you know which is I mean not very fast I might be I might some. People might walk faster than I was jogging but again it was just having these things where it's just like what can I track that I can see progress in and how can I just do a little bit.
Tayson: More each time right yeah I it's funny we're very similar in I think the goal-oriented side of things I like to set really big goals and work for a long time at them and um I do get pretty crushed when things don't go the way that you want them to but also even like the watch like for me I I'm uh I'm not really an Apple user but I got a Garmin watch and I started to because I tried to like run or be active outside for training but I end up just kept defaulting back to the gym yeah and it was because I feel like I could just see the progress easier and so when I got a watch that I was tracking mileage and and like seeing my weekly mileage number and just. Stuff like that I started to gamify it and it definitely changed it for me where that progress and being able to track that progress was helpful right there's no.
Andrew: Progress if you can't track it yeah tracking it is is well I forget yeah I forget who said it but I heard someone say like measurement is motivation and like stop trying to find like the the mythical magical you know aha inspiration moment and just focus on measurement because you're seeing those actually seeing progress even if it's you know one percent more or or less than that more it's just hugely.
Tayson: Motivating totally totally so as you're prep preparing for this what was like the biggest um I don't know what was like the best thing you did in preparations for this like if you had one key takeaways like this was the best thing I did I you know.
Andrew: It was pretty fun like I said we I go I mean still to this day I go car camping actually I just got back from uh you know my girlfriend and I Rocky we drove up to Alaska for in August and and camped along the way so it's like wow that's still a huge Joy of mine but this was my first time and so the training for the JMT was in 2019 the end of 2018 a little bit I think if I remember correctly it doesn't feel that long ago but uh uh uh but so this I had never been backpacking before so I really enjoyed a lot of just you know again living in Southern California um you know living in Los Angeles a lot of people just only think of it as the.
Andrew: City but we have some pretty cool mountain ranges that aren't you know an hour or less outside of the city and just getting out and exploring and backpacking sometimes by myself just in some of some of these prep uh hikes was really really fun and really cool there's this cool place called Henninger Henninger Flats which I guess most recently was used as like to grow uh pine trees and study how they affect enforest fires but a lot of like this San Bernardino and closer mountain ranges here aren't too tiny um in some of the lower elevations so it's just this really cool place I was like a three mile hike up and they have a bunch of campgrounds and a bathroom and sometimes have running water um so it's a very it was very it. Was a very easy entry-level hike but it's also close and it was really beautiful and it just had these amazing views of sort of various downtowns in in Southern California so that was a really cool.
Tayson: Place yeah yeah those shakeouts are are so critical and I think you can't train and not do the shakeouts or do the ShakeOut trips and not train because they really do go so hand in hand because it just takes anything it takes an injury or it takes mentally checking out you know because you're not prepared mentally and yeah I.
Andrew: Hadn't I had never camped alone before so that's you know I mean I did a lot of these with my partner as well but just even doing that was a was uh growing and both difficult at times but also really special experience yeah it's it's.
Tayson: Yeah I think for me like I never had that you know solo issue but um I've been around friends and stuff that enough enough people that I've seen that that it's always surprising right because for some reason being alone in the woods you know can can really trigger things for people and I think easing into that is is definitely critical but I don't and I think it's it's not even rational fear I guess sometimes it's it's more the the unknowns right and so I think I think the more unknowns you can eliminate the the more comfortable you are in those scenarios so car camping and then being a mile from your car and then three miles from your car and pretty soon you're in the middle of of the Wilderness you know camp and solo.
Tayson: But um so you're gearing up for this as you're gearing up for all this and again I kind of went this way but I want to come back to it really quick before we get right into the actual meat and potatoes of the story which is what were you hoping to get from doing this was it was it purely like I want this Badge of like I've hiked the GMT or was there was there something else that you felt like was pulling you to go do this no that's.
Andrew: A great question I think on the surface I'm very much motivated by like checking something off the list Peak packing you know sort of totally this is cool not very many people get to see this or experience this sometimes I'm a little bit more motivated at than I want to be but um there's a huge part of it that was just the challenge of it like am I capable of doing this you know I think we can be very limiting on ourselves and uh sort of settle and that has its like I understand why uh we there's a lot of things going on there's a lot of stress and complexities happen and sort of as a defense to that we may settle in certain areas to excel in others oversimplified but so a big part. Of it was also just sort of challenging myself like is this a possibility is this picture of who I think I want to be like one do I even want to be that person let me let me try it and and secondly is am I capable of it yeah why do you think we.
Tayson: As humans or maybe it's just me and you I don't know are just so fascinated with hard things like like it just seems like we're fascinated to watch other people do hard things but we're also really interested in pushing our own limits I I for me you know it's kind of the same thing I started trail running this last year and I did this I did my first ever um like organized race right and it was a a 45 mile race through through you know from ranging from 10 to 12 000 feet in elevation you're just sitting climbing and descending at that elevation it was it was absolutely brutal and as I was running I started the runoff and by like mile 16 I was having these issues and I was so frustrated because I'm.
Tayson: Like I'm just just not a runner like I'm just not built to be a runner and I thought I'm like so why do I why do I do this why am I dead set on improving at running and I just thought I think I'd do it because I'm bad at it like I'm for some reason I'm interested in improving whether it's the things I'm good at or the things I'm bad at and and and doing hard things and and for some reason I think I'm fascinated with it and I think I think other people are too right like they see other people go do amazing things and it's just fascinating so I wonder if a part of that was was what you're feeling and if you have any.
Andrew: Thoughts on that yeah I know what I'm about to say is definitely true for me I like to think it's true for others but I'm not others um but I just feel like there's so many things that are out of control in our lives and we I don't like being out of control that's where stress comes in that's where anxiety comes in even where regret comes in um and sort of all these feelings and so pushing ourselves to you know if to do difficult things strenuous things like planning this hike I think there's very much a this is something that is out of control that I can s more safely try versus and it's sort of and obviously there is the dangers but I don't know if that's that's making sense but sort of there's.
Andrew: Enough constraints like there's enough known about attempting uh really long through hike if you've never done it before that it's not complete chaos um so there are some bumpers on the bowling lane uh to use a metaphor but you still have to try and knock the pins down and so yeah it's like this weird mix of it's difficult it's challenging it's out of our control but there are some rains mixing metaphors there are some guides that can sort of keep it make it feel a little bit more doable and safe and I think that's also why we love watching people do I mean like free solo was a huge movie and I think it's people look at this Ultra chaotic world this Ultra chaotic world and go if this person can do that maybe we're. Not as out of control as we think.
Tayson: Yeah or or were completely Reckless that's what I get when I watch free solo.
Andrew: Holy but I think that goes hand in hand like this is a completely Reckless thing that he was able to do and so maybe the world isn't as scary as it is now that may be a false belief and we may just sort of well to him I think he does feel like he's in control right like he's living his best life when he's on on that mountain and he feels in control and and he's just walking that line for him um and I think that Rush he gets from doing it and Rush might be the wrong word but the sort of the reason he keeps doing it is because it is one of those things where it feels it feels like you know you're sort of chipping away at the chaos that's around us. One little bit at a time yeah I you.
Tayson: You touched on this a little bit in one of your podcasts that I I was listening to which was just this concept of of pain and how pain um can can actually like make you feel alive if that makes sense or like be a touch point right and I I think there's something to that in the sense of um because of the chaotic crazy world that we live in and because it's there's so many variables and things like that that sometimes when you're on trail that even experiencing pain makes you feel more present than you can be anywhere else if that makes sense like you can just be just there I'm just hiking down this Trail I'm just looking around and and I'm and I'm just feeling this pain after a certain amount of miles. Right well.
Andrew: Life is more simple on Trail like even if you have a lot of stuff waiting for you when you get back there's only so much you can do in that moment you can only take another step to get to Camp if you're in the middle of somewhere like you're you're you know you're half as far away as getting but you know you're often days away from returning back even if you wanted to exit early so it's like there's only four or five things that you have to do every single day and that definitely helps you sort of focus on the present and I think experiencing pain experiencing joy and experiencing Greek all these things sort of continue to point you in that place when you're out in the middle of nowhere totally.
Tayson: Yeah I think there's there's a tremendous amount of power in in being present like that and not being able to to check out and send them out on on Tech or whatever it is and just and and being you know helpless too being able to do anything about your to-do list or your stresses in in the first season of Trail.
Andrew: Weight there's an episode and and we talk with we talk about like the healing power nature for lack of a better term and you know there's a reason people with PTSD like go through outdoor therapy you know you hear all these stories of of you know soldiers who return home and do the at or the PCT um and there's a reason why you know it's sort of you know I I don't have PTSD but I have whatever my you know cushy privileged City version of that is and so I experienced the same benefits on a smaller scale right totally.
Tayson: So so let's jump into this so you start the GMT um you're hiking with your partner Rocky right yeah and um you set out and what are what are the first couple days like are you feeling like I got this or are you feeling like what did I just start no I definitely got.
Andrew: This heart and discourage pretty soon I was uh throughout a lot of the hike honestly like I was sort of I thought it was further along than I actually was and um that was that was pretty difficult to sort of wrestle with I do think if maybe this is just an excuse but I do think I had some altitude sickness related stuff I had a pretty gnarly like wheezing when I was breathing you know the day two and three or something like that um but that's part of light and it's part of being out there is sort of assessing where you're at and sort of going okay is this good is it safe do we need to turn back do we need a push do we need it do an alternate route Etc so I. Definitely had a lot of those experiences in the first definitely in the first week but in the first few days as well.
Tayson: Yeah altitude sickness is no joke I I take it very seriously um after I've had altitude sickness and um yeah I mean just I feel like I'm susceptible to it almost because typically going into it you're you're it's stress it can be from stress on the body work stress Etc or or you starting off you know the trail being um you know slightly overweight and and like that's going to be additional stress that at altitude just compounds right and so that's actually really impressive did you end up dropping any elevation when the wheezing started to go away like did you go into a town or anything like that or did it just go away on its own no we did.
Andrew: Um we did do some I'm trying to not give away spoilers if people still wanted to.
Tayson: Listen to them yeah and let me let me say this too really quick um Andrew's podcast is not to like like an interview style podcast per se like ours or just like where we're doing stuff or stuff he's Talent very much the season he does it in Seasons where he's telling a story throughout the entire season so each episode is more like a season you'd watch like on Netflix or something like that so um it is it is very much worth going and listening through his podcast uh to hear just the art of you telling that story but but you know you bring in all sorts of you know you bring in little guests and little sound bites here and there that that really add a lot to the story.
Andrew: Yeah and stuff like that but um yeah so we we did have to to do some detours and and do some alternate stuff uh we never went like when I was starting to feel that because I don't know if it was all altitude sickness or not I just know I was having trouble breathing and I had like squeezy thing and I had congestion now that could have been some some sort of cold type thing that was made worse by the altitude or that could have been the altitude caused it I mean definitely my fitness level wasn't helping that you know but uh as we say in in the the show too like there is still this sort of mystery around altitude sickness and it can affect people who are Pros who've never had it before. Or it can affect people like me but uh yeah we like that was a very good lesson to learn too and of just sort of like sometimes like taking the detour isn't a failure and that's okay and so that's what a big focus of that episode happens to be about yeah so.
Tayson: Tell me about your hardest day on trail uh.
Andrew: It's probably that day I mean I guess I can say it's not I don't really believe too much in spoilers that's a whole other tangent to say I don't believe in spoilers but I just I don't think it ruins the experience as much as I've been up to do so we started on the sub we did the JMT from south to North which means that we had we Summit Mount Whitney you know within the first few days right and that this is when I was really struggling and it was early on in the trip I was I was having trouble and it was one of those things where it was like do we push through and do this and potentially something horrible happen or or just you know sort of will this this the strenuous.
Andrew: Nature of this ruin the rest of the trip or make us have to cut short if there's not like a catastrophic thing um and and yeah so that was probably the toughest day for me was just the physical stress of of doing that plus the emotional stress of realizing I'm not going to be able to Summit Mount Whitney and it's just technically a through hike if I don't walk every single you know mile of it by foot and all those you know sort of dumb scorecard things that us humans do the ego gets in the way there are some other tough days um you know there's there's an experience with uh with you know some injuries and a and a a hiker that uh sort of fell off Trail and and had to be evacuated.
Andrew: And so that's more of the emotional sort of stress I don't know if it was me sort of putting that out of my mind and not focusing on that or not dealing with it maybe I still haven't dealt with it but like that was definitely more that was more difficult for for Rocky um than it was for me and then dealing with post holding for the first time was it was definitely a challenge too and and really learning okay this this is important what time of day you plan to hit this yeah it's like oh that's.
Tayson: They're over exaggerating no they're not so so tons of people start off on trails to uh to only find out that they that they're not willing to do it or can do it right I I can't speak necessarily a ton through like through hikers of the at or PCT and stuff but there's a there's a large percentage of them that don't make it out of the first hundred miles or the first two weeks and and um I think it shocks them even though they know the statistic right so yeah for you coming into this and kind of starting with perhaps maybe a harder harder part of the trail going straight up Mount Whitney like that um why do you feel like you you decided to keep going forward.
Andrew: I think I mean a part of it was just like I've already like quote unquote sold this podcast so it's like there was a little bit of of that or the shame and embarrassment um you know we talk a lot about this concept of an inciting incident which is like a storytelling technique but you know as my friend says sometimes if there's a river that you need to cross throw your boots over at first and you're like well I have to cross it down because that's where my boots are so pretty commanded I think that was a huge part of it I think the other thing too is is you know I was subconsciously learning then but definitely it became more concrete once I got home but just like a change isn't a failure like.
Andrew: A detour isn't a failure uh an adaptation isn't a failure and so often we can put that high stress on ourselves but I think more maybe more to get at what you were saying too like I truly believe anyone who is anyone who can walk can do the JMT um it's going to be a lot harder for some people it's going to be a lot easier for others but the most difficult part is not the physical action of walking and hiking and climbing elevation and and going down it's I think it's so much the mental game and that's the stuff that's hardest to prepare for as we say in the podcast there aren't gyms for your mind unless that's what therapy is but I think some therapists might take offense to that all right right.
Tayson: But you can build like I would say you could build an arsenal of experiences of.
Andrew: Totally like I.
Tayson: You know that was a little I trained myself to do hard like I've you know if you're looking at it from your own perspective of like the more hard things I do the better I get at doing the hard things right um and I think I think there's a massive element to that and I think it doesn't have to be like doing a massive GMT experience it can be line upon line.
Andrew: Right 100.
Tayson: Um but I feel like I need I need your wisdom in the sense of like how do I find more um you know like for instance with that with that Ultra that I Ran So I finished the ultra and I finished it and congratulations bad position I guess you could say I mean you finished it though I finished it right but I didn't finish at the time I wanted and I finished like pretty really dehydrated had like facial twitching and like a lisp and stuff it was it was I was in bad position and but I finished it I felt very accomplished for like a day and then like the next day I was like I need to run that again and I need to run it the way that I wanted to run it.
Tayson: If that makes sense like I just instantly leap forward to the next thing and I really wish that uh I could stop and and like enjoy things a little bit more and just be like accomplished with that and um I think there's a lot of value in that it's really interesting to watch um the members that were doing the 100 Mile Challenge because of of the the beta group that we took into that program this year um well over the majority didn't do the 100 miles but they all came back and found you know these big positives out of the experience um which which I I found very impressive and and um just that they were a lot of them start off with this goal and they'd like Post in the in our close Facebook. Group saying like this was the goal this is how it timed out I was disappointed but then I'm super happy about it all in the end right and um I think there's there's a lot of of uh learning I think for some um some people that I think that comes naturally and for for others like me it's it's I just instantly leap forward to the next thing way too fast right.
Andrew: Yeah um oh there's definitely some days on the JMT where I was like planning the next through hike and it's just like no like be here now yeah yeah exactly so.
Tayson: What was your best day on trail.
Andrew: Uh uh you know there are some pretty special days sort of in the last week where because we uh skipped Whitney we could readjust some of the mileage on other days and sort of really enjoy we we skipped Whitney and then we added one more day I forget why off the top of my head but so we ended up actually having so we could sort of and we were you know at the peak of our fitness level by then so it's just like getting to Camp early enjoying these amazing views that are just you know it's the Sierras which is already one of the most beautiful places it's you know it's it's uh you know even the developed areas of the Sierras like Yosemite Valley are known for their beauty even though they're filled with.
Andrew: Cars and stuff like that which are there's a lot of ugly cars out there um so that was definitely it I mean there's the cliche of like the the neros of like you know getting into Red's Meadow and like eating a hamburger that honestly I don't think is that anything special it's not a bad hamburger but just then it felt amazing you know right totally showering after you know however many days seven eight days you know uh in the back country so just things like that I mean trying to think if there's like a specific moment honestly walking down is this was a bitter sweet moment I think the sort of last three or so miles walking down into Yosemite Valley and you know just more and more people more and more people show up.
Andrew: And that definitely takes you aback and you're like this is kind of weird and strange after seeing you know maybe three people a day but also like having accomplished this goal and then there was the people just didn't give you a second thought but you know there was one older couple who like saw our big packs and saw us posing for a picture by like the uh there's like a mileage sign because it's like a it's like a Trailhead that has multiple trails and so like we were getting a picture pointing to the JMT mileage and they're like did you just do that and like yeah and they're like whoa that's so cool and like that was like a really special moment.
Tayson: Yeah was there a moment when you realized that that you were gonna finish like like you were like I'm for sure gonna like you know what I mean it's always like the goal is to finish but then there's there's usually yeah we're gonna do this like we've crossed this specific threshold where you're like it's happening it's.
Andrew: Yeah I think definitely after our first um sort of resupply I was pretty sure you know there was this interesting thing that happened and then I learned doing this with you know my partner where Rocky was uh Rocky was less prepared in a sense that I mean she's way more fit than I am and has done you know she used she used to run you know cross-country and things like that but uh like I I spent way too much time I mean this is Live Ultralight like just obsessing about every little detail you know like trying different shoes switching to different shoes etc etc etc um and so like she had hiking boots that were fine and good for when we would just go out but you know they started falling apart just getting.
Andrew: Blisters on her feet you know uh and I just felt really bad but long story short she uh she would start being like I just I wanna I don't want to be here why are we out here this is ridiculous especially after the encounter with the the Fallen hiker and stuff like that where it was just like what this is why are we out here and um I instantly went into Fix-It mode I was like okay where's the nearest exit let's get out of here and just learning like all those feelings they're real and valid obviously but it's like she didn't actually want to leave yeah and and so there was a couple of moments along there where I was just like okay this could be the end of it and that's that's fine but. Um I really think after that first resupply after the first week or whatever five days I was just like this is I can do this we can we can get done.
Tayson: Yeah that's awesome well you bring up kind of obsessing over equipment and gear and uh I mean personally I think you're totally validated in that I obsess over here so much and shoes and all of that right because it it can all make a massive difference right like a bad pair of shoes and and what not can can end a hike you know or so on so forth so um I'm curious you know do you know like what you started the the trail um off with like your base weight or or.
Andrew: Just yeah I mean still right now honestly I didn't I didn't realize I was as ultralight as I was you know the the the joke on the JMT is because you know you're often there's often pcters who have you know you know a grocery bag is their backpack on their back and then you have these these you know retirees who have these you know huge buses on their back and so we were somewhere in the middle I think I think base weight was around 12 or 13 pounds so not too bad and I think I'm I'm still right over there now I mean maybe dropped a pound on it um I'm still pretty big guy even though I lost weight and so just there's more fabric even on the lightweight fabric so and then the. Whole 10 pound thing is kind of arbitrary anyway but I'm always looking on how to light I'm right now I'm at the point where it's just like I don't need to buy any more stuff like I'm just adding to landfills you know like like let me at least wear something.
Tayson: Out before I replace it totally yeah I I get that a lot where people will get obsessed with with people's gear lists like this guy had a you know a nine pound gear list like it'll get a lot of views on YouTube or this that and the other but for me I think um it's like that's just not realistic because where I live I'm gonna need a warmer sleeping bag I'm six foot two so I need you know the tall version 16. You know and all those things and it all it all adds up to where I sit most the time my base weight is between 10 and 12 pounds and yeah um I think it's you know a really a really great spot to be honestly it's like if I can get it down. To 10 pounds half the time I'll I'll be like okay now I can add one luxury item maybe well.
Andrew: Yeah that's a chair on this one that's what I was going to say like that's the one thing I missed the most was a chair the chair with a bar yeah so like my.
Tayson: Whole thing is just like how can I lighten this to get to add you know one of those one pound chairs to it yeah what was what do you feel like was the most important piece of gear that you brought like what was like a piece that really stood out to you on show so in a.
Andrew: Couple of my practice hikes I had you know decent uh Big Agnes synthetic mummy bag and I've never been a big sleeping bag fan and so I didn't even know about quilts until after I had already made that purchase and and Big Agnes helped us out too that uh with some gear and stuff like that so it was it was also fortuitous in that sense yeah but uh sort of after some of those hikes I was just like this isn't working I gotta figure out a better sleep thing and I ended up getting you know z-packs quilt and and that was a total Game Changer and now even when we're car camping and stuff we'll use those more often than not yeah yeah so.
Tayson: Interesting I've I've I've seen it both ways where people can't get used to the quilts and I'm like in love with quilts I guess well I like sleeping on my.
Andrew: Stomach I like sleeping on my side I move around a lot and yeah the part of it this is is just finding what is for you but I think that sleeping bag was probably my most important piece of gear.
Tayson: Yeah that's awesome um well you finished you finished the hike I think you already mentioned that something I'm not spoiling anything here but I think people should absolutely go listen to the journey along the way I think it's one of those one of those styles of podcasts that would be great to just download the whole season before you go on your own hike or yeah you're.
Andrew: Training I definitely I mean I did that with a lot of audiobooks and stuff like that I think I've listened to every audiobook of someone's you know PCT or at Journey um and then some of the lesser-known trails as well I find it super inspirational.
Tayson: Yeah so so I'd urge people to go do that listen to it when you're when you're out on trail and you've got another season coming up as well right maybe give us a you know the uh ten thousandth view of what's happening in this season yeah so.
Andrew: This one is definitely a bit more of like an emotional sequel than like a an actual part two and uh we get into that in the first episode part of that is just through whether it was pandemic or Wildfire season in California like plans change and and couldn't necessarily do what we wanted to do fingers crossed we actually are thinking about doing the uh communist Santiago uh next year and that might be a season three if we get renewed but uh so everyone go listen yeah but season two it's sort of Taken these Concepts we talked about in season one so Trail weight obviously there is the physical weight on my body that I was listening but there was a lot of like emotional weight emotional baggage that we talked about we've talked a little.
Andrew: About that today and then there's also this concept of like the weight of being a responsible Outdoors person and what is our impact on these places and if we love these and we recreate in these areas you know are we loving these places to death and so really taking that concept for season two and chronicling uh my experience sort of discovering and then learning about um Walt Disney's attempt to build a ski park in Mineral King in the Sierras and it's a really fascinating story just a few like history or theme parks and stuff like that there's a lot of really interesting tidbits but also it it's it's a it's a it's a great example of sort of our shifting views on environmentalism on how we use the land and how we preserve it how.
Andrew: We recreate in it and uh I've learned a lot along the way but just you know from from it being this great big idea that everyone supported Walt Disney considered himself you know an environmentalist he got awards for from the Sierra Club I think he was like an honor honorary member if I if I remember correctly to sort of getting stuck in development hell to then being opposed by environmentalists then going to the Supreme Court and creating this Landmark you know as one of the guests says in this season the Supreme Court case that sort of came from this is the most underappreciated Environmental case in history and it's had such amazing impacts because part of it really questions does nature have rights like you know the The Lorax Dr Seuss famous who will speak.
Andrew: For the trees but that's a really interesting question and I know I'm constantly I don't have an answer and so that's part of why I wanted to do this season of like what does it mean to be a responsible Outdoors person like is it you know like I mentioned I just drove to Alaska and is was that a bad idea am I making am I polluting the world am I destroying these beautiful places that I'm visiting and and sort of wrestling with these questions then along the way you know I go I spend some time in the Sears and Mineral King you know I talk about other hikes on Montauk with historians and experts and journalists and and stuff along the way yeah that sounds very.
Tayson: Fascinating to me it's something that that I also um think about a lot I've I've never been on the JMT but I've even heard things like you know parts of the JMT are so well used and loved that like they're they're not the same or so on so forth right and so it when the trail itself has has been adjusted over the years too like so you might be walking down a part of it that wasn't the quote-unquote original part of it as well too because that other place just got too much foot traffic right right yeah it's it's it is it is a very fascinating question and and it'd be interesting to to hear your take especially where you're saying like you're you're not necessarily strong on on one side right because um you. Know if you if you completely not use it right like then the natural resources and whatnot that are available to us to go and enjoy then what's the point of it but but also you know you do see the the degrade you know over time and that's that's really disheartening as well and so it's yeah it's interesting it's it's it's quite the the thing to wrestle with well and one of.
Andrew: The things we sort of scratched the surface on in the first season is even the concept of wilderness and how that's kind of a manufactured thing because if you look at like people have been living all over the world for a long time and people live differently than we live today and so like a lot of indigenous people throughout the Sierras because that's where I spent time you know uh would manage it you know the the I think a lot of people maybe have heard about how in Yosemite Valley you know they would set fires to sort of keep the the the grass and brush at a certain level and sort of manage it and and Garden in these areas so then when white settlers first came there and they like this is an amazing.
Andrew: Wild place it's like it was also it is a beautiful place but it was also taken care of in almost Garden to look a certain way um and so there are a lot of these questions about like use overuse and so much of our preservation in the past has been sort of like just hitting pause and it's just like well when what era do you hit pause on you know like do you try to Resort how it was 100 years ago 200 years ago a thousand years ago or do you try to posit how it is today and it's it's it gets more and more.
Tayson: Complicated too because I'm I grew up a sportsman right and so I've I've watched animal herds rise and fall and we have this massive massive issue really where you've got basically humans as has this massive impact of where we're taking over wintering lands we're destroying travel corridors we're we're doing all these things but we're also like the apex predator and then we like are introducing we're reintroducing other apex predators wolves and Grizzlies and then and then all that just flows down to where like deer herds are are minuscule compared to what they've been and and where are they gonna go right because we're still we're still doing what we're doing and we're now we're you know in in anyways it's it just gets more and more and more complicated because just like you say well. What because the people that are let's say arguing to bring back in wolves and Grizzlies and stuff like that it's like well we need to bring them back because we pushed them out totally.
Andrew: True.
Tayson: But at the same time like like what happens when you do that and where like you say where do you push pause do you push pause on after you push them out do you push pause on this or this because this is you know is all of California gonna go up and fire and and is that is that should it is that you know that's the nature should we try to put up you know we fight forest fires yeah there's there's still a huge you know I don't know when the last time you were in uh Yosemite or if you've ever been but there's you know still a lot of people who are mad that they sort of let those fires burn as much as they did and they did the wrong decision and and. There's other people who are like no this is a fire ecology this is a normal cycle of it like yes let's let's you know and then there's the whole argument well we've let them over grow because we hit pause and so the fire is worse and and I.
Andrew: Think it's one of these things not as a cop-out but as a truly like life lesson is like sometimes asking the questions is the most important part and continuing to ask questions and you know this is probably more cliche than fact but it is one of those things too where it's like if you're not changing your mind about something every year like you're probably not listening not learning not hearing other perspectives as much as you should.
Tayson: Yeah that's such a great way to say it too is um the people that I freaking opinions involved here that I think are the most strong are the ones that never adapt their opinions um you know that they sometimes you come to like you know middle of rural Utah and the people you grew up around have this opinion and it's and it never changes because they're like the opinions around them never change and they don't they don't necessarily travel out and see other parts of the world to to have that and they're not co-mingling with other opinions enough right they get in their own little tight you know small towns yeah and and unfortunately like while I can totally see what they're saying and stuff it's like but that's not the reality of the world. We live in now right and and so adapting and changing I think that's that's a really well well said that if your opinions aren't constantly adapting and changing that you're you're probably getting yeah and.
Andrew: Obviously it's a it's a you know it's there are exceptions to that you know but yeah it's just one of these things where it's just like what ask the question at the very least listen to more people you know I I as as a meta I think in metaphors a lot maybe that's the Storyteller in me but you know uh sort of a a a concept that has stuck with me over the years is like if you want to paint the most accurate picture possible you have to look at an item from multiple perspectives multiple views that's what 3D is versus 2D so if you only have one or two perspectives on something it's going to be much flatter but the more angles the more perspectives the more voices you get in the more complete. Picture you're gonna have and I think the same is true obviously in all of this like let's hear all these different stuff let's bring in all this information let's continue to study new stuff but let's look back at traditional things as well and sort of how do we how do we move forward and let's let's make mistakes and learn and adjust yeah yeah I'm uh.
Tayson: So in Utah I would say that Patagonia is not the most popular company at all times but at the same time there's so much that I see in the good that a company can do and we haven't discussed this on the podcast yet so interesting enough that last week Patagonia basically announced that they've Yvonne chinard the the owner of Patagonia basically signed it over to a couple different trusts and entities that will now run Patagonia as the sole owners and donate massive amounts of profits basically all profits coming from Patagonia going forward will be donated into these uh what are called 501c3 organizations that just donate donate the money into climate control and things like that that the Patagonia believes in but I don't know did you see that that news announced last week well.
Andrew: And it's it that's I think this is a great example to to bring up what we're talking about because like I'm a Patagonia fan I think you know what they've like the the quality of their stuff is great the you know B Corporation they're one percent for the planet they're pretty much created the organic cotton movement which now pretty much all our clothes are done you know they've done some really cool things but I and then obviously like I'm all for more money going into these areas but there's also been a really interesting counter debate which I think is very valid it's like why does he get to choose what organizations get the money like shouldn't this be Democratic wouldn't it be better wouldn't it be better if it stayed a company and all that.
Andrew: Money went into our taxes and then us the voters could decide on how to use that better like shouldn't it be more democratic I think that's a really valid point um I think I don't I see both sides to it truly I truly do um there's there's the quote unquote like how do you do good today while still being able to adapt and change for the good tomorrow because part of what he said was like like even if the next person who takes over this company shares the same values even if the next person after that you know like how long down the line whether it's a public company or it gets you know I give it to my kids and then they give it to their kids like what if future Generations have a.
Andrew: Different values than what we do like I think it's a totally valid concern but at the same time what if the companies that he's giving all this money to like what if we learned new approaches to to to help and this trust is is stuck giving this money to this other stuff I think there's there's an interesting thing there where again I think this is a good thing in the long run like if I just had to give my two cents which I don't have to but I am because that's what we share our uh you know uh uh uninformed opinions that's what podcasting is but uh but yeah that's a great example of like let's keep asking these questions and let's go like is this actually a good is this a good idea maybe. It is for today but it might not be for tomorrow yeah I think I'm always.
Tayson: Just inspired by what a what good a company can do totally obviously there's lots of companies that can that can be the opposite and be destructive right but it's really cool to see a company whether you agree with everything they do or you don't um their style whatever but like it's cool to see that a company can have that much power and Sway and um.
Andrew: Yeah I mean I mean just to weigh in on that too like I think it would be great if democracy would would allow that to work in the way that it should but unfortunately there's so much in between there and where it would get back to I mean it's the same thing like these can also do bad things yeah and like why are national parks broke when everyone's in them right like there's all these things that's like um that I think it's it's cool that they can kind of Step around and hopefully the way that that they set those entities up you know for for years and maybe you know centuries that it'll continue to do good for for people but it's really cool if you haven't looked into it maybe just just go look.
Andrew: It up um it's an it's an interesting concept of what they've tried to form as far as just having two governing entities that now manage Patagonia and and allocate the profits to giving back to to the world so and and this is a concept that we explore in season two as well sort of like do you use the systems in place to try to address the issues or do you say the systems might be broken in and so maybe you need a tear like like sometimes you need to take all the furniture out of the house and figure out what you want to keep how you want to organize things and sometimes you're like no we got to tear down the house and build a new one and so like again I think on the. Same theme it's just sort of keep asking these questions like don't don't let asking questions prevent you from like doing something but also don't let your sort of decision to do something let you stop asking questions.
Tayson: Totally totally well Andrew it has been an absolute privilege to have you on the podcast I've really enjoyed um your troll weight podcast I need to go and finish it myself so now you've spoiled it now I know you finish it but you know um and I look forward to this to this next season that you've got coming out that comes out.
Andrew: Um in about a month is that correct yeah October I should have the date right in front of me but I don't October 17th.
Tayson: Okay so yeah just just under a month probably from when this is published it'll be you know weeks away so um make sure you're subscribed to his podcast go check it out learn more keep an open mind I think it's it's good for everybody I know I'd like to have more of an open mind and also just you know I think we're getting to the point Outdoor Vitals so it'd be it's it's advantageous for us to figure out more ways to give back and to help and and figure out our voice and and how we can have an impact as a company as well so.
Andrew: Um sorry just on that note too like in the spirit of this conversations you know like there might be things in there that I disagree with years from now and so like like uh if you disagree with the stuff you hear I I don't think there's anything to comfort yourself I honestly don't remember but like that's okay to disagree with it but let's take instead of using that as a place to sort of draw lines in the sand like research it for yourself listen to other opinions you know if you can constructively and lovingly disagree with someone and enter into that conversation I think that's a great place to start.
Tayson: Totally totally and I'm sure the way that you're gonna tell those stories will be you know in the style that it makes it easy to just consume that and think right you're you're a guy who likes to ask those questions that make you Ponder and I'm sure that's what that podcast will be about so and hopefully.
Andrew: I'll take the uh I'll take the critique and I'll take the last and I'll and hopefully I'll be the first to say I was wrong I that's I mean that's just that's the nature of it anytime you create something you're creating an opportunity or a target for for other people to fire at you but also you know you're creating like the World's Gonna Change and so not all relevant state or not all information stays relevant um forever so I think that's that's a good place to be.
